Modeling Polywell

Discuss how polywell fusion works; share theoretical questions and answers.

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TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

i was more interested in emergence of the the diamagnetic phenomenon we are supposing to be the WB.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you're saying you're interested in. My understanding is the electron pressure distorts the field as a consequence of electrons moving along the field lines. Are you looking for modelling of this phenomenon, such as to produce a WB? That would be nice to see. Joel Rogers is trying, but hasn't gotten there yet. He said he would issue a report on his efforts soon.
3. Energy confinement on the WB-7 exceeds the classical predictions (wiffleball based on the electron gyro-radius) by a large factor.
-------
...hang on a sec. shouldn't those classical predictions have given you the correct result? theres nothing non-classical going on, surely?
I think some read this as an endorsement of cusp-plugging. I thought classical just referrred to "non-Wiffleball" cusp confinement (I think someone put it as mirror<cusp<WB).
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

rcain
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Post by rcain »

Hi Dave - yes, thats precisely what I'm saying. I understand the electron pressure 'analogy' - but it is just that. like Indreks mini-me-polywell artifice. useful, nonetheless. but not fully descriptive.

i would be very interested to see Joel Rogers work. is that Joel Rogers at MIT?
...I thought classical just referrred to "non-Wiffleball" cusp confinement
.. though he specifically says 'exceeds the classical predictions (wiffleball based on the electron gyro-radius)'.

which i took to mean, 'local/micro-model of EXB' on the plasma.

In much the same way ..
MSimon wrote: See my

viewtopic.php?p=38875#38875

for some thoughts on the matter.
... as I understand it, you are trying to get an order of magnitude estimate of the 'required' diamagnetic effect here. Is that right MSimon? But surely we should have a term for gyro-radius in there somewhere?

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

i would be very interested to see Joel Rogers work. is that Joel Rogers at MIT?
Joel is a Canadian physicist. He has been trying to get a Polywell experiment going there without much luck.

You can access his work here in the a session Rick chaired.

Here is a link to the pdf. There is also a ppt.

PIC Simulation of Polywell
Joel G. Rogers, Ph.D

http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/static/TALKS/1 ... elroge.pdf
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

... as I understand it, you are trying to get an order of magnitude estimate of the 'required' diamagnetic effect here. Is that right MSimon? But surely we should have a term for gyro-radius in there somewhere?
No. I was just trying to figure out how many electrons you would need to circulate to "cancel" the magnetic field in the reactor. i.e. the diamagnetic effect. Multiply by 6 to get the total.

The gyroradius question is different.
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rcain
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Post by rcain »

thanks MSimon. I recall now seeing that and noting
Very few ions are
lost through corners.
. i wonder if he' following up on this work at all.

rcain
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Post by rcain »

ps. (our posts are crossing sonmewhat)... by 'no' i think you mean 'yes' - that seems precisely what i understood you to be attempting.

i agree gyro-radius approach is a different matter, beyond me at present, but someone on here may have a handle on it.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

rcain wrote:thanks MSimon. I recall now seeing that and noting
Very few ions are
lost through corners.
. i wonder if he' following up on this work at all.
Yes. I have some contacts and am trying to arrange to get him more computing horsepower.
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MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

Here is the link with the ppt and other stuff.

http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/iec2009/agenda

If you will send me your e-mail I will send you the gyroradius (constant field) spread sheet. The actuals will be smaller since the field gets stronger as you get closer to the coil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroradius

A calculator:

http://www.davidpace.com/physics/gradua ... widget.htm

Some links:

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Gyroradius?qsrc=3044
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rcain
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Post by rcain »

thats fabulous. thanks MSimon. I'll pm you my email address.

learned scientists, on the verge of breakthoughs, scrabbling about begging for more MIPS; whats the world comming to. i thought MIPS would be no problem in this day and age.

TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

.. though he specifically says 'exceeds the classical predictions (wiffleball based on the electron gyro-radius)'.
Yes, I'm not quite sure how to parse that one. At first glance, he seems to be saying it actually exceeds Bussard's WB predictions, but does that really seem likely? I've always assumed it was just awkwardly phrased, misstated (did he mean "cusp" not "wiffleball"?), or specific to something in that thread (maybe he means ion confinement?), but maybe I'm missing something.


Simon,

I think the SETI@home people now use a more general tool that lets you accept spare processor donation time from anyone for any project (at least they were a few years ago) called "BOING" or something. Not sure how helpful it will be, but we might get a couple hundred PCs on it just from T-P.
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

TallDave wrote:Simon,

I think the SETI@home people now use a more general tool that lets you accept spare processor donation time from anyone for any project (at least they were a few years ago) called "BOING" or something. Not sure how helpful it will be, but we might get a couple hundred PCs on it just from T-P.
I think what I have arranged will work out better as Joel will have a fixed configuration and people who can show him how to use it. i.e. initial hand holding.

Maybe later you or I should look up how to set up a SETI@home process and start a thread on it. I have to do some things for the next few hours so if you are ambitious give it a shot. Otherwise I will get to it later.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

TallDave wrote: I think the SETI@home people now use a more general tool that lets you accept spare processor donation time from anyone for any project (at least they were a few years ago) called "BOING" or something. Not sure how helpful it will be, but we might get a couple hundred PCs on it just from T-P.
BOINC.
If you get it set up, I may actually donate some cycles.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/VolunteerComputing

Here is the scary part:
* Volunteers must trust projects in several ways:
o The volunteer trusts the project to provide applications that don't damage their computer or invade their privacy.
o The volunteer trusts that the project is truthful about what work is being done by its applications, and how the resulting intellectual property will be used.
o The volunteer trusts the project to follow proper security practices, so that hackers cannot use the project as a vehicle for malicious activities.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

BenTC
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Post by BenTC »

o The volunteer trusts the project to provide applications that don't damage their computer or invade their privacy.
o The volunteer trusts the project to follow proper security practices, so that hackers cannot use the project as a vehicle for malicious activities.
You might run it on its own inside a virtual machine.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

BenTC wrote:
o The volunteer trusts the project to provide applications that don't damage their computer or invade their privacy.
o The volunteer trusts the project to follow proper security practices, so that hackers cannot use the project as a vehicle for malicious activities.
You might run it on its own inside a virtual machine.
Yes. But I'd want the details worked out as part of an @home application.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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