Near Spherical Magrid

Discuss how polywell fusion works; share theoretical questions and answers.

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imaginatium
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Post by imaginatium »

happyjack27 wrote:
rjaypeters wrote:Real Spherized Tombo:
me likey.

get 3rd spot on my list. my new prioritized list for modelling/simulation:

1. hanelyp's configuration on pg 1 of the brainstorming thread (radially-aligned coils),
2. mine and hanelyp's cusp conversion / disruption techniques on pg 26 of the brainstorming thread (single-coil octahedral magrid with cusp disruption / with cusp conversion)
3. spherized tombo
4. tombo's inverse wb-6 on pg 5
5. 32-face tombo
6. square spherized wb-6

on another note - regarding "real" vs. "fake" tombo. the difference is one has to fight attractive forces (compressive) where the other has to fight repulsive forces (tensile). perhaps not as straightforward which one is better. curious. the "fake" would be more mechanically "stable" as dx = -ddx (repulsive forces decrease w/repulsion) whereas in the "real" dx = ddx (attractive forces increase w/attraction). the fake you could possibly tie the coils together w/loops of fiberglass (which has a higher tensile strength than steel) don't know what you'd use for the real. something with a high compressive strength, presumably. then in either case you've got to worry about deformation of the coil in that area.

The "real tombo" as it's being called, wouldn't need to have the segments tied together it only needs to be tied to the outer wall opposing the attractive force, and there by being stabilized by the tension.

IMHO, of all the "near spherical" octahedrons, this presents the least engineering challenges.

rjaypeters
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Post by rjaypeters »

Six "rectified" "spherized" squares:

Image Image Image
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

rjaypeters
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Post by rjaypeters »

rcain wrote:love the simplicity of these designs.

hope this isn't a really daft question, but how do you get multiple turns through these coil configs - or dont we?
If your questiion is about the "real" spherized Tombo: It depends, I think, on which way we need the current to flow in each segment. If the current can flow up in the red, down in the blue, up in the yellow, down in the black and back up in the red, can we complete a circuit?

The above alternating scheme fails if the current must flow down (or up) in all segments.

If your questiion is not about the "real" spherized Tombo: I don't know.

The "false" Tombo might have another advantage in the ability to tie the top and bottom pairs of loops together.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

Randy
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Post by Randy »

Hey guys,
I’ve spent the last couple of days working on a 3D magrid magnetic field viewer using Mathematica only. I just finished generating the 3D winding geometry for tombo’s single winding spherized octahedron configuration. It took me a lot of trial and error just to figure out how to get the coil winding data properly generated such that my current will flow sequentially in the proper direction through each of the twelve 90-degree arc segments.

Imagine a spherized version of this excellent graphic by tombo:
Image

My first plan is to add a mathematical plane that can be programmed to slice through the magrid windings at any specified orientation. Then I’ll use a series of simple Biot-Savart summations to calculate the B-field contributions at different points on the plane. From there, I can draw field-lines, flux density shadings and arrows on the given plane. This first attempt seems to be the least computationally intensive approach.

I chose Mathematica because I’m most familiar with it and apparently it is the easiest to translate into ‘octave’ (an open source freely available math program) that most people here could use.

I’m learning a lot and double checking while trying to keep the program user friendly at the same time, so don’t expect immediate results.

I’ll keep you guys updated.

~Randy

icarus
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Post by icarus »

rjaypeters:
Six "rectified" "spherized" squares:
So, of these "squeezed" or "zipped" line-cusp zoo of MaGrids (that were begun by DTibbets), this one you have shown is what I would consider to have closest to the WB-6,7 mag-field configuration. (Good work on the geometry/drawings by the way.)

What has been shown so far are the even-numbered, regular 8 and 6 sided volumes, i.e. octahedron and cube, mapped to the surface of a sphere. Of course, there are two more that are simpler still, the 4-sided tetrahedral mapped to the sphere giving 4 'triangular', bow-sided, coil elements.

Also there is the trivial 2-sided where there are just two circular coils abutting each other with around a gyro-radius, spacing. Interesting to wonder if this simplest 2-coiled structure can support a quasi-spherical plasmoid in the central field null with wiffle-ball trapping factor? Given powerful enough magnets, seems to be nothing in 'wiffle-ball trapping theory' that says not, experiments will tell how good that theory is eventually.

D Tibbets
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Post by D Tibbets »

Some of the profusion of new and almost new grid shapes being offered seems to be deviating from the limits expressed by Bussard. Some seem variations on the baseball seam theme and Bussard pointed out the inadequacy of that. See page 4 of:

http://prometheusfusionperfection.files ... tent08.pdf


To evangelize my understanding ( and thereby offering a chance to correct any of my misunderstanding) I will try to describe the cusp geometries from a volume perspective.

With an opposing two ring magnet Penning type trap there are two types of cusps. The point cusps that are relatively small cusp escape areas, and line or equatorial cusps that consist of much more area.
To keep things simple I will use squares to compare dimensions, as opposed to spheres and complex shapes.
In two dimensions an opposing magnet penning trap and a Polywell look similar. It is the third dimension that changes the picture.
Take a penning trap with two magnets 100 cm in diameter and separated by 1 cm.
Assume the equatorial or line cusp is 1 cm wide. Assume that the confining magnetic field extends 1/2 the distance to the center axis. So the line cusp would have a loss area of 1 cm * the distance around the square, or 400 cm^2. The confined volume is 1 cm * 50 cm per side * 1 cm wide or 2500 cm^3. Thus the loss area/ containment volume is 400 cm^2 / 1500 cm^3 or ~ 1cm^2 of loss area per 6 cm^3 of confined volume. This compares to the lower end of what the 2008 patent application referred to as mirror reflection confinement. If you separate the two magnets more the internal volume increases, but the opposing magnetic field intersection weakens, so the loss area of the line cusps increases, in what I will assume is a proportional manor so this ration does not change.

In a Polywell with it's magnets arranged evenly around a sphere (cube in my examples) the internal volume is increased, but the line cusp widths stay about the same, because the cusp formed between the magnets is dependent on the strength, but more importantly, on the separation of the magnets that produce the cusps and these are unchanged in the Polywell, irregardless of the overall size of the machine. The important point here is not the shape of the magnets, but that that magnets on opposite sides of a line cusp are kept as close as possible.

Take the penning trap example above. Add the 4 extra magnets. Now you have 6 magnets forming a cube, 100 cm on a side, that would have a containment volume of 50 cm * 50 cm * 50cm, or 125,000 cm^3. Because of the extra magnets the length of the total line cusps would increase by a factor of ~3 ( I think). But the width of these line cusps would remain ~ 1 cm. So the total line cusp loss areas would increase to ~ 400 cm^2 * 3 or 1200 cm^2.
The resulting loss area/ containment volume is 1200 cm^2 / 125,000 cm^3 or 1/104. This is ~ twice what the has been referred to as cusp confinement. I think the corner areas of these line cusps would account for the increased losses, because the magnet edges are separated further from each other so the magnetic fields are weaker and the corresponding line cusp widths are wider. I dislike referring to these areas as 'point cusps' or virtual point cusps, as they are actually the intersection of three (or more) widening line cusps. Having sharper corners would lessen this separation but there are limits imposed by arcing concerns, and how acutely you can bend copper or superconducting wires, etc. How this perspective would affect ideas of using squares rotated 90 degrees so that there are much larger virtual point cusps is uncertain, but it seems they would significantly compromise the containment based solely on the above arguments. though still much less than trying to contain the same volume with only two opposing magnets.

So, even without a Wiffleball, the Polywell has an ~ 10 fold or greater containment advantage over opposing magnet penning type mirror machines.
The Wiffleball is claimed to pinch the cusps so that they are much narrower. Or, perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the collection areas that feed into the cusps are pinched. The actual cusp width itself would be unchanged. For my example I will assume this effect decreases the above line cusps to ~ 0.1 cm widths. That would decrease the total line cusp loss area to ~ 120 cm^2. So the loss to containment volume ratio would be ~ 1/1000. This approaches the claimed performance of Wiffleball containment.

The important consideration is that the line cusps are between adjacent magnets and the space separating the magnets in a Polywell is minimized irregardless of the overall size of the machine. This allows the volume (or density) to be rapidly increased with only modest increases in loss area. The limits to this scaling is either the mechanical strength necessary to hold the increasing strong magnets together, or the background density that leads to arcing and loss of the potential well. I believe this second limit is reached before the other becomes significant. Thus the top end density is the background arc limiting density (assume ~ 10^-6 atm) times the Wiffleball trapping effect (assume ~ 1000X), giving the claimed obtainable plasma densities of ~ 10^19 particles / M^3 (~ 10^-6 atm) * 1000, or 10^22 particles / M^3.

True point cusps have been ignored because I understand their contribution to losses are much smaller. Though a Polywell has more point cusps compared to an opposing magnet penning trap, the effect on the overall losses described above would be tiny.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

rjaypeters
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Post by rjaypeters »

Randy wrote:... I just finished generating the 3D winding geometry for tombo’s single winding spherized octahedron configuration.
Does it look something like this?
Image Image
In my modeling, I have found the adjustment from one variety of Tombo to another (even the "false") to be relatively easy. It may be true of your work, at least I hope so, if you decide to look at others in the same vein.

Icarus,
The rectified squares on a sphere was the most tedious to model of all to date, but a thing of beauty is a joy forever. I'll do the fours later.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

icarus
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Post by icarus »

rjaypeters:
I'll do the fours later.
I'm not suggesting that you this something you need to be looking into on my account, it would only be a curiosity ... but then again isn't everything.

rjaypeters
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Post by rjaypeters »

Yup.
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

imaginatium
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Post by imaginatium »

rjaypeters wrote:
Randy wrote:... I just finished generating the 3D winding geometry for tombo’s single winding spherized octahedron configuration.
Does it look something like this?
Image Image
In my modeling, I have found the adjustment from one variety of Tombo to another (even the "false") to be relatively easy. It may be true of your work, at least I hope so, if you decide to look at others in the same vein.

Icarus,
The rectified squares on a sphere was the most tedious to model of all to date, but a thing of beauty is a joy forever. I'll do the fours later.
Yes, that is exactly what it would look like. I would be curious to see if randy's calculations, would vary much between this version and the 4 segment version previously posted. Personally, I suspect that the results won't show, a field variation, great enough to justify the added difficulty in engineering.

The spherized square, has long line cusps, at the parallel segments. If you turned the squares 45 degrees, so that the only approached at the corners, it would be more consistent, with Bussard's original WB-7 concept.

rjaypeters
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Post by rjaypeters »

Did someone say baseball?

Image Image
"Aqaba! By Land!" T. E. Lawrence

R. Peters

happyjack27
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Post by happyjack27 »

rjaypeters wrote:Did someone say baseball?
why baseball seem doesn't work

in short, it has two huge line cusps, one on either side.

happyjack27
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Post by happyjack27 »

rjaypeters wrote:Six "rectified" "spherized" squares:
two problems:
1. there is an odd number of faces at each vertex. so around a vertex you have, say, north in, north out, and... what's the third? you can't alternate polarity. so you're fields are going to combine and aren't going to be very convex to the plasma. so it's not going to confine it very well and the pressure isn't going to seal the cusps into a wiffle ball. its quite concievable that the pressure would just push the cusps open.
2. huge line cusps. that thin spacing between the coils where the magnetic fields cancel out is an escape route for ions/ electrons, and it spans the entire perimeter! you could eliminate it by eliminating every other coil so that no two coils are adjacent, but you can't do that because of 1.; because there's an odd number of faces at each vertex.

Randy
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Post by Randy »

rjaypeters wrote:
Randy wrote:... I just finished generating the 3D winding geometry for tombo’s single winding spherized octahedron configuration.
Does it look something like this?
Image Image
...
Yes, that’s what it looks like. But in this first ‘idealized’ model the corners are not rounded, they instead form right angles at the end points of each arc segment. Also the winding is just a single line not pipes as depicted in your graphic.

Here’s what my coil model looks like:
Show[Graphics3D[{L1o2, L2o3, L3o4, L4o5, L5o6, L6o7, L7o8, L8o9, L9o10, L10o11, L11o12, L12o1}, Axes ->True]]
Image

Each of the twelve arc segments (L1o2, L2o3, L3o4, …) consist of a sequence of 14 straight line segments previously generated from 3D parametric equations which describe that specific arc. So the entire coil model consists of 168 straight line segments.

For example (Mathematica code):
L1o2 = First[ParametricPlot3D[{0,Cos[theta],Sin[theta]},{theta,pi/2,pi},PlotPoints->15]];
For each point on the slicing plane all 168 line current contributions must be summed (using Biot-Savart law) to get the B-field vector at that point on the plane. So, if you decide to calculate the B-field at 1000x1000 different points on the plane surface, this will require 168 million floating-point 3D vector calculations. I think you get the general idea.

I’m designing the program to allow for the modeling of any magrid coil configuration, so that the magnetic fields produced by different coil configurations can be compared by the user.

After I get the magnetostatic system working I plan to add an electrostatic capability as well so the user can electrically charge the magrid itself. This will give the user access to ‘quantifiable’ spatial electric and magnetic field distributions within and around the magrid.
Not too sure about this, but it’s my understanding that there is no electric field on the inside of an electrically charged spherical surface because the contributions from the surface to the electric field at any interior point cancel-out. Even if so, the electric charge on the magrid would still not represent a true spherical surface so including this capability may well be a good thing.

The program is an early-stage ‘work in progress’, so some ideas I have now may (will likely) change.

~Randy

icarus
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Post by icarus »

happyjack:
two problems:
Reading your comments here I think you, and others, may have missed the point of this exercise.

The field goes the same direction for all the faces (out or in) and the opposite direction out (or in) in the small line cusps gaps between the coils.

It is an identical mag-field topology to WB-6 (7, 8?) but the field coming through the line cusps have been squeezed to their minimum (order of a gyroradius length scale). I.e. the smallest gap between the circular coils of WB-6,7 becomes the gap for the whole length of the line cusps of those machines (which is the same length for this configuration).

The rationale being, if the line cusps are the problem squeeze them up as much as possible. Obviously, they cannot be sealed shut completely or that would be a different field topology altogether.

What is clear from the morphology of the mag-field is that by a simplified conservation of flux-tubes the same flux through a central-point cusp is to be expected issuing from its attendant (surrounding) line cusp. (hat tip to Art Carlson on this one)

An analogy would be if you squirt a jet of water at a surface on the perpendicular. The mass flux of water through the diameter of the jet (central cusp) is the same mass flux of the water through the thin annular ring exiting the impact area (line cusp), regardless of the diameter of surrounding ring (length) you choose to analyse.

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