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Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:35 am
by Carl White
Molten silicon. Grid-level storage, not for vehicles. They claim 60%-80% the cost of lithium.

https://newatlas.com/cct-silicon-energy ... age/59098/

(not an April fools article)

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:23 pm
by Aero
I didn't see Rossi's picture in the article, but a thermal generator with only 3 moving parts? Suggests thermoelectric generator with efficiencies ranging from 6% to 15%, that doesn't seem like a very good deal to me.

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:07 am
by RERT
If all they have done is increase the effective life an order of magnitude at constant outlay it seems quite significant.

Li-ion even at $100/kWh is 1-10 cents per kWh with a lifetime of 10,000-1,000 cycles. The bottom end of that range gives very expensive power. If they really can deliver 25 years of diurnal cycling, moving to the top end of the range, the cost of intermittency of renewables starts to look reasonable - provided annual maintenance for the (glowing red-hot) packages isn't too high....

FWIW 1.2 MWh in a shipping container is doesn't seem like 6-8 times Li-ion to me.

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:46 pm
by paperburn1
Climate Change Technologies, also known as CCT Energy Storage, has launched its TED (Thermal Energy Device) with a set of remarkable claims.

Remarkable claims require remarkable proof. I have yet to see either in this case.
Pumped hydro still remains the cheapest most economical way to store energy. IMHO
Sites abound but due to environmentalist and NIMBY (Not in my back yard) thinking this idea will never get off the ground.
Maybe we should start over and give the cockroaches a chance.

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:28 pm
by Aero
paperburn1 wrote:Climate Change Technologies, also known as CCT Energy Storage, has launched its TED (Thermal Energy Device) with a set of remarkable claims.

Remarkable claims require remarkable proof. I have yet to see either in this case.
Pumped hydro still remains the cheapest most economical way to store energy. IMHO
Sites abound but due to environmentalist and NIMBY (Not in my back yard) thinking this idea will never get off the ground.
Maybe we should start over and give the cockroaches a chance.


"Remarkable claims require remarkable proof." Yes, or at least some claims to be proven.

If this storage system has very low efficiency, (thermoelectric generator to recover power) then it would be very wasteful to store any kind of expensive generated power. Converting grid energy into heat then recovering 1W for every 6W stored seems excessively lossy to me.

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:09 pm
by alexjrgreen
paperburn1 wrote:Remarkable claims require remarkable proof.

This is equivalent to "Unremarkable claims require little or no proof.", which is clearly false.

Claims require proof. There is only one standard.

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:31 am
by Carl White
Aero wrote:I didn't see Rossi's picture in the article, but a thermal generator with only 3 moving parts? Suggests thermoelectric generator with efficiencies ranging from 6% to 15%, that doesn't seem like a very good deal to me.


I guess that would depend on the inputs to the grid. If there's going to be a fair wind/solar component, I imagine (not an expert) that it's necessary to add enough so that there is generally an oversupply of power to ensure an undersupply is rare. So as long as the average oversupply exceeds the amount demanded of the battery by 1 over that 0.06 to 0.15, the relative costs of the batteries themselves would be what matters.

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:37 am
by hanelyp
Aero wrote:I didn't see Rossi's picture in the article, but a thermal generator with only 3 moving parts? Suggests thermoelectric generator with efficiencies ranging from 6% to 15%, that doesn't seem like a very good deal to me.

I've read of Stirling-electric generators with a grand total of 2 moving parts, not counting heat input and waste heat rejection.

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:59 am
by t_c
alexjrgreen wrote:
paperburn1 wrote:Remarkable claims require remarkable proof.

This is equivalent to "Unremarkable claims require little or no proof.", which is clearly false.

Claims require proof. There is only one standard.


lol, in your daily life I'm sure you aren't asking anyone for proof if they say they own a car, but you're gonna want evidence if they say they own the batmobile

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:59 am
by alexjrgreen
t_c wrote:
alexjrgreen wrote:
paperburn1 wrote:Remarkable claims require remarkable proof.

This is equivalent to "Unremarkable claims require little or no proof.", which is clearly false.

Claims require proof. There is only one standard.


lol, in your daily life I'm sure you aren't asking anyone for proof if they say they own a car, but you're gonna want evidence if they say they own the batmobile

In Science, there is only one standard.

In daily life, "there's one born every minute".

Re: Thermal battery with 6-8 times the energy density of lithium

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:43 am
by paperburn1
hmmm,,,, thermel electric seems to be the new gig.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/17/si ... ge-system/