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Talk-Polywell.org • Fission news(I know blasphemy ) - Page 3
Page 3 of 4

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:36 am
by paperburn1
I guess it is all relative, not huge like Fukushima but huge in comparison to the cost of a normal cleanout/up.

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:51 am
by D Tibbets

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:39 pm
by ladajo
In the Fukishima design the last line of defense is a large bathtub of re-enforced concrete plant foundation that forms a collection well for any slag (corium) that penetrates the other (roughly four) boundaries. In that design, the main line of defense for total core failure is this well, which is the boundary before the foundation bucket. One of the issues with the design of older pressure vessels, inherent to being a pressure vessel, is that the bottom is concave for the molten fuel mass (slag), which in turn concentrates it, improving reactivity and heat focus. This in turn can cause the vessel to fail, and then you are looking for a well containment, which may not disperse the slag sufficiently. I always wondered back in the day, why the containment engineers allowed for concave designs, it seemed counter to the goal. However, I think they were victims of hubris regarding the ability to keep a core assembly from slagging. Meh.

Edit for clarity.

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:33 pm
by paperburn1
Speaking of hubris, One of the little-known facts about fukushima was the generators were sealed in a watertight building in the flood zone. In theory even if submerged underwater the buildings retain their integrity and in fact they did. But it was a small little overlooked design flaw that did the reactor in. The power conduit for the wiring from the generator building to the pumps in the reactor were not watertight. As the water level rose it found its way into the generators through the conduit used to supply power to the motors. For $100 of sealant the disaster would have never happened. But those at the built the generators shed assumed the sealing what occurred at the reactor side and those at the reactor side assumed the sealing would occur at the entry point into the watertight shed. oops!

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:57 pm
by ladajo
Hadn't heard that one. Funny, and totally believable. Do you have a cite handy? No worries if you don't. Just curious.

One of the ironies for me is that the Fukishima design is from the same era as TMI, and both were done in by H2 after frying the cladding.
One would think there would have been more thought put into procedural and plant safety revisions. I am out of the loop now, however I do wonder on occasion the design repercussions from the multiple H2 excursions. Granted those old designs are moot, however I would like to think that new designs are being held accountable. Maybe I should look into it. Meh. When I get some time, maybe. Got bigger and more frightful fish to fry these days.

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:20 am
by paperburn1
On 11 March 2011 Japan suffered its worst recorded earthquake. The epicentre was 110 miles east north
east from the of the Fukushima Dai‐ichi (Fukushima‐1) nuclear power site which has 6 Boiling Water
Reactors. Reactor Units 1, 2 and 3 on this site were operating at power before the event and on detection
of the earthquake shut down safely. Initially 12 on‐site back diesel generators were used to provide the
alternating (AC) electrical supplies to power essential post‐trip cooling. Within an hour a massive tsunami
from the earthquake inundated the site. This resulted in the loss of all but one diesel generator, some
direct current (DC) supplies and essential instrumentation, and created massive damage around the site.
Despite the efforts of the operators eventually back‐up cooling was lost. With the loss of cooling systems,
Reactor Units 1 to 3 overheated. This resulted in several explosions and what is predicted to be melting of
the fuel in the reactors leading to major releases of radioactivity, initially to air but later by leakage of
contaminated water to sea.  
http://www.onr.org.uk/fukushima/final-report.pdf
Japanese earthquake and tsunami:
Implications for the UK nuclear industry
Final Report
HM Chief Inspector of Nuclear Installations
September 2011

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:43 am
by ladajo
I have read several findings reports on the accident, and knew that the backup gensets had flooded via the cable conduits, however I did not know that they were specked for sealants, and it was not done. I am sorry, I should have clarified. Thanks though!

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:20 am
by paperburn1
I will see if I can find that report,this might be it. http://www.epri.com/abstracts/Pages/Pro ... 0001024946
It was under lessons learned or something like that. Most of the generators were washed away but if the ones in the "basement" had been water tight they think it would have been a non event like the other reactors that successfully shut down that day.

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:30 am
by KitemanSA

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:33 am
by KitemanSA

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:37 am
by KitemanSA

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:43 pm
by paperburn1
Please note this was at a reactor were TEPCO followed the seawall and power distribution recommendations. The fukushima reactors the largest difference between them, apart from the reactor safety systems being designed some twenty years apart, the Fukushima I seawall was built to a height of just 5.7m. Whilst the Onagawa power plant seawall was nearly 14 m (46 ft) high and thus successfully blocked the majority of the tsunami from causing severe flood damage and even though a lot of these deficiencies were later discovered before the tsunami the company chose not to upgrade fukushima.

That is the difference from doing it right and doing it to save money.

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:05 am
by KitemanSA

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:07 am
by KitemanSA

Re: Fission news(I know blasphemy )

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:53 pm
by D Tibbets