MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

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paperburn1
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby paperburn1 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:37 am

One of the pilots we trained drove his tesla from California to Eastern North Carolina in seven days. Apparently musk is installing charging stations in various dealerships across the usa. And they have a service to help you plan your routes.

EDIT
WOW I was wrong , there are a lot of superchargers now
https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds/34 ... name=28532
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

paperburn1
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby paperburn1 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:00 pm

The Model S offers a choice of lithium-ion battery packs, a standard 60 kilowatt-hour battery or a more expensive, more powerful 85-kwh unit. How long it takes to recharge a depleted battery depends on whether the Model S has one or two onboard chargers and the source of the electricity.
Tesla says the 60-kwh battery provides a range of up to 232 miles (the EPA pegs it at 208 miles), and the 85-kwh battery (a $10,000 option) provides up to 300 miles (the EPA puts it at 265 miles). Here are some examples for recharging times: With a single onboard charger plugged into a standard 110-volt outlet, Tesla says you will get 5 miles of range for every hour of charging. From zero to 300 miles would take about 52 hours at that rate. With a single charger connected to a 240-volt outlet, which Tesla recommends, the pace speeds up to 31 miles of range for each hour of charging, and a full 300-mile charge takes less than 9.5 hours.
Step up to twin chargers on the car and connect to a 240-volt, high-power wall charger (an extra-cost charging unit, not just a 240-volt line) and the charging speed zooms to 62 miles of range per hour, and the total charging time drops to under 4 hours, 45 minutes.
Really in a hurry? Stop at a Tesla Supercharger station and you can top off the tank with 300 miles of range in just an hour, as long as your Model S is configured with Supercharger capability If a Supercharger station is out of reach, most public charging stations can recharge the Model S at the rate of 22 miles of range per hour of charging.

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/11/h ... H1s5hSO.99
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

paperburn1
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Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby paperburn1 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:01 pm

The Model S offers a choice of lithium-ion battery packs, a standard 60 kilowatt-hour battery or a more expensive, more powerful 85-kwh unit. How long it takes to recharge a depleted battery depends on whether the Model S has one or two onboard chargers and the source of the electricity.
Tesla says the 60-kwh battery provides a range of up to 232 miles (the EPA pegs it at 208 miles), and the 85-kwh battery (a $10,000 option) provides up to 300 miles (the EPA puts it at 265 miles). Here are some examples for recharging times: With a single onboard charger plugged into a standard 110-volt outlet, Tesla says you will get 5 miles of range for every hour of charging. From zero to 300 miles would take about 52 hours at that rate. With a single charger connected to a 240-volt outlet, which Tesla recommends, the pace speeds up to 31 miles of range for each hour of charging, and a full 300-mile charge takes less than 9.5 hours.
Step up to twin chargers on the car and connect to a 240-volt, high-power wall charger (an extra-cost charging unit, not just a 240-volt line) and the charging speed zooms to 62 miles of range per hour, and the total charging time drops to under 4 hours, 45 minutes.
Really in a hurry? Stop at a Tesla Supercharger station and you can top off the tank with 300 miles of range in just an hour, as long as your Model S is configured with Supercharger capability If a Supercharger station is out of reach, most public charging stations can recharge the Model S at the rate of 22 miles of range per hour of charging.

Read more at https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/11/h ... H1s5hSO.99
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Skipjack
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby Skipjack » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:22 pm

paperburn1 wrote:WOW I was wrong , there are a lot of superchargers now
https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds/34 ... name=28532

Amazing that people still dont know that ;)
Yes, Tesla has a huge network of superchargers now and it is constantly expanding. Tesla wants you to be able to go anywhere in the US with always a supercharger in range. The on board computer will calculate your route to make sure you always have a charging station at hand. It is also free to charge your Model S and Model X at a supercharger station. It will allegedly cost a (very) small fee or a subscription of sorts to charge your Model 3, though.

krenshala
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby krenshala » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:08 pm

Their charging times make me curious about the amperage. For the 17kWh battery pack in my Volt (~11kWh used before it switches to gas) the charger uses either 8 or 12 amp draw (selectable from the car). On 120v and 8 amps, it takes a bit over 10 hours for a full charge (~45mi). On 12 amps it takes 8 hours. On a 240v connection (which is 12 amps) it takes just over 4 hours.

If the Tesla is charging 60kWh (or even just 50kWh) in an hour that is a lot of amperage over the charger cable for the supercharger.

ladajo
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby ladajo » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:43 pm

I wonder if anyone has calculated the dirt(energy source) to applied mile cost of electric verses gasoline, as well as the corresponding "Carbon Footprint".
Just curious. I would think including the manufacture and disposal costs/impacts of the battery pack should count as well. And to be fair, one could do the same for a car's gas tank.

On a side note, my mucking around with Lithium battery packs over a number of years of flying electrics, made me very careful with the charging. They liked to go boom if you don't do it right over time. I also know from a practical application point, there are still concerns (and the occasional failure) of ocean applied Lithium packs. The UUV world is constantly pressing the battery envelope. Always interesting.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby paperburn1 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:10 pm

This is not my work soo..
The H-System Combined Cycle Generator from General Electric is 60% efficient in turning natural gas into electricity. "Combined Cycle" is where the natural gas is burned to generate electricity and then the waste heat is used to create steam that powers a second generator. Natural gas recovery is 97.5% efficient, processing is also 97.5% efficient and then transmission efficiency over the electric grid is 92% on average. This gives us a well-to-electric-outlet efficiency of 97.5% x 97.5% x 60% x 92% = 52.5%.

Despite a body shape, tires and gearing aimed at high performance rather than peak efficiency, the Tesla Roadster requires 0.4 MJ per kilometer or, stated another way, will travel 2.53 km per mega-joule of electricity. The full cycle charge and discharge efficiency of the Tesla Roadster is 86%, which means that for every 100 MJ of electricity used to charge the battery, about 86 MJ reaches the motor.

Bringing the math together, we get the final figure of merit of 2.53 km/MJ x 86% x 52.5% = 1.14 km/MJ. Let’s compare that to the Prius and a few other options normally considered energy efficient.

The fully considered well-to-wheel efficiency of a gasoline powered car is equal to the energy content of gasoline (34.3 MJ/liter) minus the refinement & transportation losses (18.3%), multiplied by the miles per gallon or km per liter. The Prius at an EPA rated 55 mpg therefore has an energy efficiency of 0.56 km/MJ. This is actually an excellent number compared with a “normal” car like the Toyota Camry at 0.28 km/MJ.

Note the term hybrid as applied to cars currently on the road is a misnomer. They are really just gasoline powered cars with a little battery assistance and, unless you are one of the handful who have an aftermarket hack, the little battery has to be charged from the gasoline engine. Therefore, they can be considered simply as slightly more efficient gasoline powered cars. If the EPA certified mileage is 55 mpg, then it is indistinguishable from a non-hybrid that achieves 55 mpg. As a friend of mine says, a world 100% full of Prius drivers is still 100% addicted to oil.

The CO2 content of any given source fuel is well understood. Natural gas is 14.4 grams of carbon per mega-joule and oil is 19.9 grams of carbon per mega-joule. Applying those carbon content levels to the vehicle efficiencies, including as a reference the Honda combusted natural gas and Honda fuel cell natural gas vehicles, the hands down winner is pure electric:
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Skipjack
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby Skipjack » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:28 pm

The problems with heat from charging can be controlled by software which varies where in the battery pack the charge goes over time.
The Tesla battery is also cooled with liquid cooling, which certainly helps as well.
As for the question krenshala asked about the amps, Teslas have two chargers. So you can charge them with two 240 volt connections at the same time.
Yes, someone did the calculation and while I can't remember the specifics, it came out as an improvement, even over the most efficient hybrids and pure ICE cars, even in areas where most of the electricity comes from coal. Though obviously in those areas, the benefit is not as big. Supercharger stations are all using solar panels (though obviously those can't provide all the electricity all the time), which also helps a bit.
Last edited by Skipjack on Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ladajo
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby ladajo » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:53 am

Thanks guys.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Carl White
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Re: MIT spinoff to market breakthrough batteries by 2017

Postby Carl White » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:45 pm

So, this company said it would be powering drones by the end of 2016 and introducing commercial products in 2017. Then after its splashy announcement... crickets. No further announcements, no buyout, nothing. Even their own website just says "new website coming in 9.2017".

Anyone want to speculate about their fate?

Maybe a new forum for defunct energy companies could be set up here, as a monument for the naive to learn from?


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