EMC2 news

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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ladajo
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby ladajo » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:16 am

Don't believe everything you hear from John Slough. Maybe you should ask yourself where are the high end plasma physicists on his team. Why aren't they there?
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Skipjack
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby Skipjack » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:24 am


crowberry
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby crowberry » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:24 am

The situation is quite interesting indeed. One should not forget that EMC2 has been funded by the Navy in 2014 and 2015, but the results in the recent PRX paper were actually from 2013. Getting new funding is obviously a top priority for EMC2, but still they have had two years to work with their current equipment, so I wonder if progress has been made during that time?

The previous paper by Helion Energy is from 2011 and they have been doing experiments with their present devices and planning for their next ones as wells as getting funding at the same time. So HE looks to be in a good position at least currently. How their device(s) will scale up remains to be seen.

Tri Alpha Energy has made an interesting step forward and it will be nice to see when the results get published and follow the next steps in scaling up the experiments.

General Fusion is working with figuring out how to compress the plasmoid in a smooth and efficient fashion to figure out how to build the prototype reactor.

LPPF is currently running with the tungsten electrode. If they have solved the plasma contamination issues then the next shots could be really interesting...

Tokamak Energy is doing interesting and good work and they have the largest base of previous knowledge to work on. They plan to operate on a similar time scale as the others so they are also a strong player in the race.

Skipjack
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby Skipjack » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:08 pm


ladajo
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby ladajo » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:07 pm

The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby ladajo » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:19 pm

For those who didn't see this before;
Bob Hirsch covers the bases IRT ITER, he hits on everthing we have hit on here. Take it a step further, and apply the same thinking pattern to other projects.
The two top issues remain relevant: Plasma Stability, Materials.

The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Skipjack
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby Skipjack » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:16 am


ladajo
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby ladajo » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:14 pm

So what you really are saying about the Helion team is that they know each other because primarily, they have only ever worked with each other. And that previous work (if any) by team members was on small scale plasma concepts that did not really generate any interest in the main stream.
So again, I ask, why is it they do not have any of the top tier on their team? Slough, while knowledgeable in certain lanes, is really better at promises and marketing than product and advancement. What did happen with his (self promoted really) fusion engine?

I am not saying they are doing nothing, I am merely proposing that you think about if they are really doing as much as you think.
If you want to consider which fusion approach is best, then you need to put them all on the same ruler. Not cherry pick what you think are important singular points.
As Bob Hirsch pointed out, the best ruler on the table today is EPRI's.
To boil down his points into my framework: Stability, Materials, Economic Viability.
Any energetic compression, and especially cyclic compression approach is going to have issues with stability when attempting to reach Q>1 regimes. Instability = real dangers of significant down-times due to re-start requirements or machine failures resulting in reduced service life and / or repairs.
Materials is an issue that every project faces. In real, full scale, operating plants between radiation induced material dynamics, and simply the ability to materially handle the proposed primary and support system operating regimes, this remains the biggest hurdle in my mind. There are things we don't know that we don't know, and there are things that we do know, but don't know how to solve. The simpler the machine, the better of it is materially. The complexity of some approaches regarding core and supporting systems moving parts and extreme requirements is already a good indicator of the risk faced to ever achieve an actual sustainable functional design.
Economic Viability is its own issue, and is also driven by the first two. Bottom line, it is an engineering issue. Can we engineer a plant that will scale economically, in the simple balance of cost of goods sold verses market value.

I am not trying to change your mind, I value your inherent right to see things as you wish. I am only trying to address how I see you making your deliberations. I perceive that you have gaps in your processes based on how you present your arguments. Pick a theory / theories as a framework, determine an analytic model, collect real data to support addressing the needs of the framework and analytic model, conduct your analysis, present your findings. You tend to have gaps as far as I can see, unless you are pushed.
Take it or leave it, your choice. :)
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby mvanwink5 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:10 pm

GF has run into the spheromak stability problem at required levels of compression, but Tri Alpha has finally solved that and at an even greater time scale, one needed for continuous operation. As far as I can see, Helion has not added neutral beam injection to stiffen the spheromaks they fire at each other, yet. GF is taking a page from ITER and has added poloidal fields (already used by TA early on). So, I think they will all 3 get there with the tricks at hand, perhaps the question is in the final design and target markets. For instance, I can't see GF's reactor in a ship, or a quiet submarine! However, for utility power retrofits, GF would fit the bill.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby mvanwink5 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:25 pm

End game pB11 complexity is in the fusion machine itself rather than fuel handling and processing and for that and progress to date (plus machine generation, for instance, if Helion has to go back and develop neutral bream injection...) I would bet on Tri Alpha and GF over Helion for commercial operation. Polywell, overall, due to simplicity, if they can get funding this year.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

choff
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby choff » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:07 pm

Anyone hear anything more about Sandia Labs Z Pinch, there was talk of a breakeven shot a year or two back?
CHoff

mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby mvanwink5 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:55 pm

Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Skipjack
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby Skipjack » Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:50 pm


Skipjack
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby Skipjack » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:10 pm


mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby mvanwink5 » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:29 pm

Yes, pB11 is TA, so take it from there. Helion has a whole processing back end to develop, and Helion may well have to develop neutral beam injection, which takes time. And the end point is really commercial.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.


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