EMC2 news

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Diogenes
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby Diogenes » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:47 pm

ladajo wrote:It has run on thousands of cores, and will continue to.
It is a full 3d model, not 2d or a quadrant.



At least we are finally getting some interesting news.

Thanks for what you can tell us.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

dnavas
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby dnavas » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:26 am

Excellent news! Are the models running D/T fuel or P/B11? [Apologies if I missed this :( ] I assume the former, if they're aiming for "neutrons, medical isotopes" but I would think that there were many steps between scaling verification and handling the rest of the engineering challenges of a "hot" environment. Best of luck!

ladajo
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby ladajo » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:29 pm

Can't say anything else at this point.
Sorry.
However, if things go as planned there will be something published in the next few months.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby paperburn1 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:15 am

I thought the PowerPoint they published in August was very revealing. It basically said no showstoppers to commercialization of the process. :D
Seems to me it's just a matter of time before they start making some neet.

For those to you may have missed it.
https://arpa-e.energy.gov/sites/default ... 5_PARK.pdf
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

dnavas
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby dnavas » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:26 pm

paperburn1 wrote:I thought the PowerPoint they published in August was very revealing. [...] For those to you may have missed it.
https://arpa-e.energy.gov/sites/default ... 5_PARK.pdf


Yeah, I found some slides in need of labels (because I don't remember all the details), so I'm cross-referencing to: https://iec.neep.wisc.edu/usjapan/16th_ ... lywell.pdf

2m is slightly larger than the original 1.5m deuterium proposal (and the target has changed somewhat from the .5s confinement / 7T / 100keV / 1m cited in the Japan Workshop pdf), but it's not as bad in size growth as skunkworks has seen, iirc. If they're claiming 10^-5 confinement, something has changed from the 2.5us measurement. Maybe because the estimate was B = .7? Perhaps the reason why the first numeric run (to get to B=1) results were interesting.

1s electron confinement isn't bad, so long as there's a method to replace them. If aneutronic is not the (first) aim, I'd want to understand lifecycle of the coils -- are they planning on some kind of neutron shield, and how does that interact with the various fields. If they are going aneutronic, then I'd want to understand the effect that the alpha particles will have on the well, and how they plan on capturing the energy. Presumably direct capture requires an even larger chamber.

I mean, for sure good news, but even in the event that the scaling runs pan out, it seems to me that there are plenty of questions prior to a power plant. Presumably, after the scaling runs you build a device to verify that nothing un-modeled is happening in real life, and then you go back to answer the rest of the engineering-related issues. How do you feed ions in (and what kind)? How do you replenish electrons? How do you extract energy? What is the efficiency of each of these pieces, and how far over parity does the machine have to run to hit net energy production? And finally, how do you jump-start the thing?!

Well, at least ten years is better than 20. One challenge at a time.

ladajo
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby ladajo » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:30 pm

More has been learned since that ppt was crafted.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby paperburn1 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:31 pm

I have my suspicions.
The bremsstrahlung losses might be smaller by a factor. (very wishful thinking) but given most conventional thinking in a open cusp polywell they would be about 30 percent even cutting loses in half would be outstanding.
Six sides is most likely not the best shape, I am placing my money twelve sides. (just because I like it, Dodecahedron it just rolls off the tongue.)
anyway I think the end is in sight andwill be happy to know one way or the other for sure.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby mvanwink5 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:40 pm

First principle simulation on 1000-4000 core super computer is a huge breakthrough. Cuts through all the doubts and second guessing. Trust but verify. :lol:
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

dnavas
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby dnavas » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:24 pm

paperburn1 wrote:I have my suspicions.
The bremsstrahlung losses might be smaller by a factor. (very wishful thinking) but given most conventional thinking in a open cusp polywell they would be about 30 percent even cutting loses in half would be outstanding.


I suspect that the larger size and lower well has to do with restricting brem losses, otherwise I'd think you'd want to run hotter and smaller.
Another interesting thing one might be able to learn through proper modeling is the effects on side-reactions of non-maxwellian distributions.

paperburn1
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby paperburn1 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:57 am

I agree I think a good analogy would be a current automotive engine. Lighter, smaller and hotter would cause a greater output of power but material sciences are the limiting factors. I believe the same applies with the Polywell concept.


Quickly side note people worried about global warming and devastation it will cause. I feel those worries are misplaced because we will suffer far more loss of life sooner if we do not come up with adequate power supplies for our growing world population. This is why we need to get fusion, thorium vision, or a great battery so we can utilize renewables very soon. With an excess of clean power we can use it to mitigate any effects of global warming, man and woman warming, climate change, or just manipulating our environment to suit us.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

choff
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby choff » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:42 pm

I have a question, EMC2 probably still has WB8 in working order, what if they could get a plasma injector for it like they did with the little WB-X machine. Maybe team up with Focus Fusion or another company playing with Spheromaks, might be a good way to test scaling up on a low budget.
CHoff

Tom Ligon
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby Tom Ligon » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:47 am

choff wrote:I have a question, EMC2 probably still has WB8 in working order, what if they could get a plasma injector for it like they did with the little WB-X machine. Maybe team up with Focus Fusion or another company playing with Spheromaks, might be a good way to test scaling up on a low budget.


Sounds fun to us, waiting impatiently on the outside. But I suspect there are fundamental reasons why it would not be practical.

Their present effort is mathematical modeling aimed at building a smarter machine. Using WB8, which seems to have been determined to be not quite right, could hinder the effort. If their scaling suggests it is not the size they want to work on next, it could be a serious mistake. And I don't think WB-8 had superconducting magnets. If they chose to go that route, the magrid will be scrapped anyway.

Plus, I don't get the impression they'll be hurting for funding. I suspect a lot of the attached equipment will be re-used. Vacuum systems and high voltage supplies might be salvagable, as will much of the diagnostics.

Which does beg the question, what, if anything, will be done with it. When I visited them in Santa Fe, all the older machines were lined up on display in the front office. But it would be so much more fun to put them to use. I'd personally love to coax PXL-1 back into a mode I got it into in Manassas Park, and it could be done in my garage. WB8 would take an effort at least as ambitious as Prometheus Fusion Perfection envisioned. Maybe some university could get supporting research going.

ladajo
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby ladajo » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:32 pm

Currently, all the previous machines are in storage. The current effort, as noted, is on simulation. Once this effort is completed, then the focus will shift back to building a physical unit to compare to the simulation findings.
The goal is the sim work will be done this coming year.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

choff
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby choff » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:40 pm

I was thinking they could lend WB8 to a company or university lab doing research on Spheromaks or FRC, since a polywell needs a plasma injection at initial startup to form the wiffleball. That way EMC2 wouldn't need to spend it's own money on the project, maybe even get paid for the use of WB8 instead. That and more data could be acquired for the simulations.
CHoff

ladajo
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Re: EMC2 news

Postby ladajo » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:05 pm

WB-8 is a pretty specialized chamber. It would take some funds to re-purpose it. Doable, however, maybe not practical.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)


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