hot and steamy

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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jcoady
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:36 pm

hot and steamy

Post by jcoady »


Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: hot and steamy

Post by Skipjack »

Well, aren't we glad that the rest of the world is just like the Australian dessert...

D Tibbets
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:52 am

Re: hot and steamy

Post by D Tibbets »

Actually, there is a lot of desserts like in Australia. The immediately obvious sites for good for solar thermal or PVC is US southwest, Australia, Southern Africa, North Africa, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mongolia, , etc. , etc.

The technology in this link though is current art, not some remarkable advancement.

http://www.nrel.gov/csp/solarpaces/proj ... ojectID=62

The temperature that is needed to make steam electricity as efficient as coal fired plants is present in- coal fired plants. That heliostats can concentrate enough heat to do this to a significant amount of water is obvious from the outlet temperature mentioned in this link.

Despite this the solar thermal approach is currently becoming less popular, not due to it's potential, but because photovoltaic collectors are becoming so efficient and cheap that they provide a greater economic alternative.

Fusion technology is becoming mainstream. Solar is fusion energy , the reactor is just far away from the conversion equipment. Even wind energy is fusion energy, just a little more complex in it's conversion to man useful electricity. For that matter, coal is fusion derived. There is non Solar energy sources like tidal (partially), geothermal, and fission (at least the energy is not derived from Solar, though it is derived from other stars).

Terrestrial fusion power plants just bypass the Sun. The advantages are the concentration of power intensity, the on demand possibilities, and the economics. Especially with tokamak type machines, the economics are becoming ever more challenged. Small fusion reactors have the major energy concentration possibilities. As such Polywells, FRC, DPF, possibly General Fusion approaches all are economically (or special use opportunities like ships) more viable than large tokamaks. Even with near proven physics, tokamaks are economic dinosaurs. As mentioned above, solar thermal plants may fall into the same category.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

paperburn1
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Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: hot and steamy

Post by paperburn1 »

The problem with renewable energy is they do not fit into our current on demand system. They work wonderfully but we have no way of long term storage (plus 24 hours) This delegates them to the path of peak load mitigation. we really need a nice big battery if we want to go down this road any further.
there is also the secondary problem of each unit must be design for its location and circumstance, so low production cost for mass usage will most likely not occur unless we can get the efficiency higher.
that said I have solar assisted heat for my house and soon to have solar hot water. Now if I just could find an AC that was economical that was 100 percent solar.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Skipjack
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: hot and steamy

Post by Skipjack »

Of course these deserts are places where almost no one lives in...
Plus the sun does not shine at night and so on and so forth.

D Tibbets
Posts: 2775
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:52 am

Re: hot and steamy

Post by D Tibbets »

No population nearby, is partially true. It does not apply to California, Arizona, partially Texas, Spain, Sicily, South Africa, New Mexico, Colorado, etc. Then there are reasonable plans to use north Africa as a power plant for europe. The real limitations are more polical than geographic. It would be nice to have a revolutionary battery technology, but still peak usage tends to be in the afternoon.

Realistically, though, the ~ 20% penetration of solar and wind generation is probably a limiting target for most locales, unless as pointed out, storage can be improved considerably. Hydroelectric can make up some more but it is also currently unpopular. Coal and the current natural gas glut are the most reasonable baseline and surge source for the foreseeable future, unless fission makes a big comeback or an economical fusion power plant technology is developed.

But, the point I wanted to make is that near real time fusion power production is already underway. No need to wait >10 million years for Solar powered plants to be converted to fossel fuels.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

Skipjack
Posts: 6805
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: hot and steamy

Post by Skipjack »

Yes, there are some states and countries that have a lot of hot and dry weather. I do have to wonder though whether he dessert is really such a great place for solar. Sandy winds can be quite abrasive, which might limit the lifetime of the reflectors. Not sure how much that would affect cost.

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