LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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ladajo
Posts: 6204
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Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

It is really too bad that you don't understand what that actually means.

Thanks for posting. Sorry you still don't get it.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Giorgio »

ROTFL :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Axil »

Giorgio wrote:ROTFL :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Experiment can be funny and produce funny results. Designing a quantum computer can lead to quantum experimets that produce funny results.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 083011.htm

In the quantum world, the future affects the past: Hindsight and foresight together more accurately 'predict' a quantum system’s state
It looks like the future can affect past events. How we test the state actually effects the results that are produced. Anyone who thinks they know what is going on in a quantum system can roll on the floor and laught to their hearts content but they might not know much about quantum experimentation or what a quantum system will produce.

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Recent experimental results from the Lagano test of Rossi's cold fusion device indicate that entranglement of nickel and hydogen ions plays a key role in cold fusion.

Some background...



Physicists of the group of Prof. Anton Zeilinger at the Institute for Quantum Optics and Quantum Information (IQOQI), the University of Vienna, and the Vienna Center for Quantum Science and Technology (VCQ) have, for the first time, demonstrated in an experiment that the decision whether two particles were in an entangled or in a separable quantum state can be made even after these particles have been measured and may no longer exist. Their results will be published this week in the journal Nature Physics.

According to the Austrian physicist Erwin Schrödinger, entanglement is the characteristic trait of quantum mechanics. In addition to its crucial role for the foundations of physics, entanglement is also a key resource for upcoming quantum information technologies such as quantum cryptography and quantum computation.

Entangled particles exhibit correlations which are stronger and more intricate than those allowed by the laws of classical physics. If two particles are in an entangled quantum state, they have perfectly defined joint properties at the expense of losing their individual properties. This is like having two dice which have no orientation until they are subject to measurement, upon which they certainly show the same (random) side up. In contrast, so-called separable quantum states allow for a classical description, because every particle has well-defined properties on its own. Two dice, each one of them with its own well-defined orientation, are in a separable state. Now, one would think that at least the nature of the quantum state must be an objective fact of reality. Either the dice are entangled or not. Zeilinger's team has now demonstrated in an experiment that this is not always the case.

The authors experimentally realized a "Gedankenexperiment" called "delayed-choice entanglement swapping", formulated by Asher Peres in the year 2000. Two pairs of entangled photons are produced, and one photon from each pair is sent to a party called Victor. Of the two remaining photons, one photon is sent to the party Alice and one is sent to the party Bob. Victor can now choose between two kinds of measurements.

If he decides to measure his two photons in a way such that they are forced to be in an entangled state, then also Alice's and Bob's photon pair becomes entangled. If Victor chooses to measure his particles individually, Alice's and Bob's photon pair ends up in a separable state. Modern quantum optics technology allowed the team to delay Victor's choice and measurement with respect to the measurements which Alice and Bob perform on their photons. "We found that whether Alice's and Bob's photons are entangled and show quantum correlations or are separable and show classical correlations can be decided after they have been measured", explains Xiao-song Ma, lead author of the study.

According to the famous words of Albert Einstein, the effects of quantum entanglement appear as "spooky action at a distance". The recent experiment has gone one remarkable step further. "Within a naïve classical word view, quantum mechanics can even mimic an influence of future actions on past events", says Anton Zeilinger.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-04-quantum-ph ... n.html#jCp

Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Giorgio »

Axil wrote:
Giorgio wrote:ROTFL :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Experiment can be funny and produce funny results. Designing a quantum computer can lead to quantum experimets that produce funny results.
It seems like you also didn't get it......

Axil wrote:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 083011.htm

In the quantum world, the future affects the past: Hindsight and foresight together more accurately 'predict' a quantum system’s state
It looks like the future can affect past events. How we test the state actually effects the results that are produced. Anyone who thinks they know what is going on in a quantum system can roll on the floor and laught to their hearts content but they might not know much about quantum experimentation or what a quantum system will produce.
And you didn't get also this experiment.

From the paper: "probing of a quantum system modifies and improves the predictions about measurements already performed in the past."
Let me restate it again, "probing of a quantum system modifies and improves the predictions about measurements already performed in the past."

What the experimenters discovered is a "statistical way" to optimize past data to get better "past prediction" using present data.
A very interesting result, per se, but it has nothing to do with "the future" influencing "the past".

I wish you guys could one day stop and spend some time to read the actual papers before posting. You shouldn't jump to wild conclusions simply by reading the journalistic jargon of the news releases.
Read the ARXIV paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1409.0510.pdf
Meantime, I will ROTFL once more.......
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Axil »

Giorgio wrote:
Axil wrote:
Giorgio wrote:ROTFL :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Experiment can be funny and produce funny results. Designing a quantum computer can lead to quantum experimets that produce funny results.
It seems like you also didn't get it......

Axil wrote:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 083011.htm

In the quantum world, the future affects the past: Hindsight and foresight together more accurately 'predict' a quantum system’s state
It looks like the future can affect past events. How we test the state actually effects the results that are produced. Anyone who thinks they know what is going on in a quantum system can roll on the floor and laught to their hearts content but they might not know much about quantum experimentation or what a quantum system will produce.
And you didn't get also this experiment.

From the paper: "probing of a quantum system modifies and improves the predictions about measurements already performed in the past."
Let me restate it again, "probing of a quantum system modifies and improves the predictions about measurements already performed in the past."

What the experimenters discovered is a "statistical way" to optimize past data to get better "past prediction" using present data.
A very interesting result, per se, but it has nothing to do with "the future" influencing "the past".

I wish you guys could one day stop and spend some time to read the actual papers before posting. You shouldn't jump to wild conclusions simply by reading the journalistic jargon of the news releases.
Read the ARXIV paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1409.0510.pdf
Meantime, I will ROTFL once more.......
In conclusion, we have demonstrated the use of the
quantum trajectory formalism to infer the quantum state
of a superconducting qubit conditioned on the outcome
of continuous measurement. We have also demonstrated
a quantum hindsight effect, where probing of a quantum
system modifies and improves the predictions about
measurements already performed in the past. These advances
may be used to improve the state preparation and
readout fidelity for quantum systems and increase their
potential for use as probes [12–17] of time-dependent interactions
and parameter estimation
This conclusion of the referenced paper supports the statement as follows
Anyone who thinks they know what is going on in a quantum system can roll on the floor and laugh to their hearts content but they might not know much about quantum experimentation or what a quantum system will produce.
The second mesurment improves the first which is essentually unreliable. Even after the second measurment, the measurement is still unreliable.

You still don't get it. Keep on laughing, analyisys of quantum systems doesn't abide the arrogant and over confident well.

Rossi has been replicated once already, with more replecations on the way. Find yourself a conforable spot on the floor as the new LENR age washes over you.

Giorgio
Posts: 2742
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Giorgio »

Axil wrote:
In conclusion, we have demonstrated the use of the
quantum trajectory formalism to infer the quantum state
of a superconducting qubit conditioned on the outcome
of continuous measurement. We have also demonstrated
a quantum hindsight effect, where probing of a quantum
system modifies and improves the predictions about
measurements already performed in the past. These advances
may be used to improve the state preparation and
readout fidelity for quantum systems and increase their
potential for use as probes [12–17] of time-dependent interactions
and parameter estimation
This conclusion of the referenced paper supports the statement as follows
Did you realize that you quoted the same point I did?
I don't know if English is your first language or not, but is not written in a too much difficult way to understand:
"probing of a quantum system modifies and improves the predictions about measurements already performed in the past."
Where in any point of this paper did they wrote your statement that "the future affects the past"?

And even if you still had any doubt a quick look at formula [2] of the paper should suffice to remove the interpretation doubts.
It's clearly written in mathematics terms that the probability of the measurement [Pp(m)] at the time (t) derived by the ABL formula has been modified with an additional matrix [Et] that "accounts for the time evolution and measurements obtained after time (t)."
Once more this has nothing to do with "Future" modifying the "Past". This is "Future data" optimizing our mathematical model of "Past data" to allow us to more correctly guess the results at the (already passed) time (t).

Let me put it in even more easy words:
At 12:00 AM I start tossing a coin, the possibility to get head or tail is 50%.
After 2 hours, at 2PM my set of data tell me the possibility to get head or tail is still 50% (this set of data is the density matrix "RHOt" of formula [2]).
After 2 more hours, at 4 PM I collect a new set of data ([Et]) that placed in formula [2] will give me a mathematical model that "more correctly" help us guess the result of the coin toss at 2 PM.
This does not effect past results of the coin toss nor modify the past, it just effect my mathematical model to allow me at 4PM to correctly guess what would have been the result of the 2 PM coin toss.


If you don't get it like this, you will never get it.......
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Axil »

At the root of your thinking lies the beleif that measurment is just a way at looking at what has immutably occured in a objective reality. The reality of the world shows that measurement effects what reality has already been done in the past.

As stated in the second part of my orginal post...
This is like having two dice which have no orientation until they are subject to measurement, upon which they certainly show the same (random) side up. In contrast, so-called separable quantum states allow for a classical description, because every particle has well-defined properties on its own. Two dice, each one of them with its own well-defined orientation, are in a separable state. Now, one would think that at least the nature of the quantum state must be an objective fact of reality. Either the dice are entangled or not. Zeilinger's team has now demonstrated in an experiment that this is not always the case.
You said...
Let me restate it again, "probing of a quantum system modifies and improves the predictions about measurements already performed in the past."
But what really happens is that probing of a quantum system modifies what has alredy happened in the past.
The recent experiment has gone one remarkable step further. "Within a naïve classical word view, quantum mechanics can even mimic an influence of future actions on past events", says Anton Zeilinger.

These counterintuitive facts are what experimentation is teaching. Can you accept this experimental truth or do you simply remain brain numbed laughing on the floor?

Such counterintuitive results are also shown in LENR experimentation. But I can understand how your predispositon to laughter distrots your understanding of reality.
Last edited by Axil on Sun May 10, 2015 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Axil »

I missed this

http://www.american-reporter.com/5,196W/101.html
Because nuclear fusion releases 10 million times more energy per unit mass than does liquid transportation fuel, the military potential of such high-energy-density power sources is enormous.

"And since the U.S. military is the largest user of liquid fuel for transportation, LENR power sources could produce the greatest transformation of the battlefield for U.S. forces since the transition from horsepower to gasoline power," the DIA concluded.

Giorgio
Posts: 2742
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Giorgio »

Axil wrote:At the root of your thinking lies the beleif that measurment is just a way at looking at what has immutably occured in a objective reality. The reality of the world shows that measurement effects what reality has already been done in the past.

As stated in the second part of my orginal post...
This is like having two dice which have no orientation until they are subject to measurement, upon which they certainly show the same (random) side up. In contrast, so-called separable quantum states allow for a classical description, because every particle has well-defined properties on its own. Two dice, each one of them with its own well-defined orientation, are in a separable state. Now, one would think that at least the nature of the quantum state must be an objective fact of reality. Either the dice are entangled or not. Zeilinger's team has now demonstrated in an experiment that this is not always the case.
You said...
Let me restate it again, "probing of a quantum system modifies and improves the predictions about measurements already performed in the past."

But what really happens is that probing of a quantum system modifies what has alredy happened in the past.
The recent experiment has gone one remarkable step further. "Within a naïve classical word view, quantum mechanics can even mimic an influence of future actions on past events", says Anton Zeilinger.
These counterintuitive facts are what experimentation is teaching. Can you accept this experimental truth or do you simply remain brain numbed laughing on the floor?
Except that what Prof. Zeilinger is talking about is a completely different experiment and a completely different issue, i.e. Entanglement.
It seems that for you all "Quantum Mechanics" is the same just because there is the "Quantum" word inside.....
It's like to say that building a skyscraper is similar to planting a tree because for both you start by making a hole in the ground :roll:

You should really get some basic knowledge of Quantum Mechanics if you intend to debate about it.


Axil wrote:Such counterintuitive results are also shown in LENR experimentation. But I can understand how your predispositon to laughter distrots your understanding of reality.
Such basic misunderstanding of experimental results and poor knowledge of the subject is what makes me so prone to laughter.
But show me where in the paper Kater Murch and his colleagues SAY that "probing of a quantum system modifies what has already happened in the past".
Show me where they illustrate that the values of a past measurement at a time (t) "magically" become different because they probed a quantum system at a time (t+x).
Show it and I will stop laughing. Until than, don't expect to be taken seriously here by anyone with some basic knowledge and/or a minimum of rational thinking.

Edited to fix spelling.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ROTFLMAO!!!!

I love visits by Axil. Really!
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by parallel »

Photo of Andrea Rossi and his 1 MW plant taken a few days ago. The plant is about halfway through a one year trial
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5 ... ormat=750w

Earlier photos of the plant under construction taken in 2014.
http://andrea-rossi.com/1mw-plant/

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Axil »

ladajo wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ROTFLMAO!!!!

I love visits by Axil. Really!
Here’s the new photo of Rossi with his plant.

Enjoy

Image

Skipjack
Posts: 6051
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Skipjack »

Real high tech diagnostics there, LOL ;)

Axil wrote:
ladajo wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ROTFLMAO!!!!

I love visits by Axil. Really!
Here’s the new photo of Rossi with his plant.

Enjoy

Image

JoeP
Posts: 519
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by JoeP »

it does look fairly ridiculous! Nevertheless, I've seen auto mechanics do the same to diag some engine timing issues :mrgreen:

paperburn1
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by paperburn1 »

With a automotive stethoscope, the type he is using is different, I wonder what he is listening for? low energy nuclear reactions? 8) hamster wheels?
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

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