LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Giorgio
Posts: 3065
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Giorgio »

"Counter-Plaintiffs (IH) were unable to replicate any of Leonardo and Rossi’s claimed results or otherwise generate measurable excess energy.
This led Counter-Plaintiffs to realize that there were only three possible conclusions: 1) Leonardo and Rossi’s claimed results, including the
purported results from the Validation, were fabricated; 2) Leonardo and Rossi did not provide all of the E-Cat IP to Counter-Plaintiffs as was
required under the License Agreement in exchange for the $10 million payment; or 3) both. "

Hopefully this waste of time and money will serve as a lesson for the next fool who will wish to make business with someone who claims that "his own" way of measuring energy input and output are more precise than "Standard industrial ways" of measuring it. :roll:
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by parallel »

IH's basic claim is:
"Defendants deny that the E-Cat produces energy substantially in excess of the amount of energy input into the reaction at a cost substantially below that of more traditional energy sources; see Ex. 1.1 technology Plaintiffs directly provided them, Industrial Heat and IPH have been unable to produce any measurable excess energy.

Who is right remains to be proven. The only thing known for sure is that ladajo is a liar and suffers from verbal diarrhea.

IH admits filing "numerous patent applications." One filed in Europe was for “Method and Apparatus for Carrying out Nickel and Hydrogen Exothermal Reaction.” Also, the Italian Patent and Trademark Office (Ufficio italiano brevetti e marchi) issued Italian Patent No. 0001387256 (the “Italian Patent”) and that said patent was entitled “Processo ed apparecchiatura per ottenere reazioni esotermiche, in particolare da nickel ed idrogeno.”

Strange that they could write patents about a technology that doesn't work and tell investors like Woodford ($50 million) that it did.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

Hey Parallel, you just keep on clinging to the sinking SS Rossiclown.

By the way, why don't you show us where I have been a liar. I suspect this will be another thing that you fail to address. Still waiting on you to prove your other claims. Care for me to list them again? I would settle for you to critique my steam enthalpy analysis demonstrating that Rossiclown's claimed steam production did not match the happy snaps and videos (nor did he understand what he was claiming).

Show me where I am wrong. Show everyone where I am a liar. Make a claim, back it up. Simple enough. You can do it, ...go on. Really. Please.

<crickets chirping>
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Giorgio
Posts: 3065
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Giorgio »

Parallel, after spending the last 4 years hitting your face against Rossi's wall of lies and deception you still have the courage to support him?
Even IH is dropping him and calling him fraud now. Maybe I should remember you that when me and Ladajo stated that IH was going to get burned from their own choices YOU defended them calling them "real businessman" and "real scientists" and so on.
Honestly is funny to see how quickly you are now dropping them.

Just read the eMail Rossi sent to IH in point 69 of latest IH claim. It's so full of lies and deceit from Rossi that (unless the jury is all blind) the chances he has not to end up in jail are honestly very slim.
Isn't it time to open your eyes and just realize that eCat is not working and that Rossi is just a liar/scammer?
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

All IH Answer files in one place openly accessible. Courtesy of "LuFong"

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/fold ... HlBZFZ4MG8
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Grumalg
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:11 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Grumalg »

The real meat of the fraud is in the second half of the IH answer document (The counter claim part). It would be pretty hard for Rossi's situation to be any worse than what is documented in there.

paperburn1
Posts: 2484
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by paperburn1 »

Sadly I do not see Rossi receiving a huge amount of punishment. Quite honestly the average juror has an extremely low analytical and scientific background. Let's face it may be one person in 10 actually knows the difference between hypothesis, theory, and theorem. So I could see him in a jury trial and ring up to the jury and portray himself as the victim of a large business. His lawyer if competent will have loaded the jury as much possible with blue-collar workers and old people. Sadly most of these lawsuits of this type are won and lost by the perception of who is the victim, not by the actual facts of the suit.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

JoeP
Posts: 524
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by JoeP »

paperburn1 wrote:Sadly I do not see Rossi receiving a huge amount of punishment. Quite honestly the average juror has an extremely low analytical and scientific background. Let's face it may be one person in 10 actually knows the difference between hypothesis, theory, and theorem. So I could see him in a jury trial and ring up to the jury and portray himself as the victim of a large business. His lawyer if competent will have loaded the jury as much possible with blue-collar workers and old people. Sadly most of these lawsuits of this type are won and lost by the perception of who is the victim, not by the actual facts of the suit.

Exactly. Jurors will see that IH has claims about the tech not working while they file patents at the same time as well as solicit funding.

I suppose they could claim they were idiots and fell in for a huge scam and for taken for millions. Yeah, that will go over great with their investors.

sdg
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:17 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by sdg »

Double post. See below
Last edited by sdg on Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

sdg
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:17 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by sdg »

Perhaps a jury will not award much or anything. But you know that IH is aiming to shut down Rossi one way or another because they brought up his "Unfair Trade Practices' and non-payment of taxes. So regardless of what happens between IH and Rossi, even if they settle, Rossi might serve time in jail for either UTP or non-payment (again), only this time in the US instead of Italy. I agree with Ladajo - IH doesn't seem to be too interested in settling. Rather, they seem intent on alerting the State of Florida about Rossi's fraud and the Feds about his tax evasion. Scorched earth comes to mind.

State of Florida (will the FL Attorney General's office pay attention?)
COUNT IV: FLORIDA DECEPTIVE AND UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES ACT
(Industrial Heat and IPH against Rossi, Leonardo, Johnson, JMP, Penon, Fabiani, USQL)
136. Counter-Plaintiffs reallege the allegations in Paragraphs 1 through 135 as if fully
set forth herein.
137. As described in greater detail above, Rossi, Leonardo, Johnson, JMP, Penon,
Fabiani, and USQL (the “FDUTPA Defendants”) were all engaged in a common scheme against
Counter-Plaintiffs.
138. The first part of the scheme was to manipulate Counter-Plaintiffs into allowing
the Plant to be sent from the Industrial Heat facility in North Carolina – where any work on,
operation of, or testing of the Plant could be supervised and overseen by Counter-Plaintiffs – to
Florida, where Leonardo, Rossi, USQL, Fabiani, and Penon could operate the Plant and
purportedly conduct measurements of the Plant’s operations away from the oversight and control
of Counter-Plaintiffs.
139. The second part of the scheme was to manipulate the operation of the Plant and
the measurements of the Plant’s operations to create the false and deceptive appearance and
Case 1:16-cv-21199-CMA Document 29 Entered on FLSD Docket 08/06/2016 Page 59 of 66
impression that the Plant was performing at astronomical levels, with COP measurements not
only well in excess of anything achieved by any third party testing of the E-Cat technology, but
in fact many multiples higher than anything achieved by any third party testing. For example,
notwithstanding flaws in their testing methodology that would have caused them to overstate
their conclusions of the COP they were measuring from an E-Cat reactor, the Lugano scientists
concluded that the E-Cat reactors they measured were producing a COP of 2.6, 2.9, 3.2, 3.6 or
5.6. According to the manipulated and fabricated testing and measurements of the FDUTPA
Defendants, they – through Leonardo, Rossi, and Penon – claimed that they were achieving
COPs more than 10 times greater than the Lugano scientists, and in fact as high as 40+ times
greater than the Lugano scientists.
140. The final part of the scheme, of course, was for Leonardo and Rossi, based on the
false and deceptive operations of the Plant in Florida, to claim to Counter-Plaintiffs that they
were required to pay Leonardo and Rossi $89 million and, when Counter-Plaintiffs rightfully
refused, to institute litigation against Counter-Plaintiffs.
141. Another goal of the scheme was to obtain various payments from CounterPlaintiffs
for work that one or more of the FDUTPA Defendants was performing not to benefit
Counter-Plaintiffs, but in fact with the goal of harming Counter-Plaintiffs. Among these
payments were service payments to USQL, Fabiani, and Penon; expense reimbursements to
Leonardo, Rossi, USQL, Fabiani, and Penon (including for travel, apartment rentals, visa-related
costs, repair work to the Plant, patent attorneys, and patent application fees); and payments for
equipment (or the transportation of equipment) to be used – or purportedly to be used – by the
FDUTPA Defendants.
142. In furtherance of this scheme, the FDUTPA Defendants engaged in the
unconscionable, unfair, and deceptive acts and practices described above, including:
a. Deceiving Counter-Plaintiffs about JMP, the operations of JMP, and the
reasons for JMP wanting to use the steam power that could be generated by
the Plant.
b. Deceiving Counter-Plaintiffs as to the reasons for wanting to move the Plant
from North Carolina to Florida.
c. Manipulating the operation of the Plant and the measurements of the Plant’s
operations to create the false impression and appearance that it was producing
a COP far in excess of the COP it was in fact achieving.
d. Providing false information to Counter-Plaintiffs as to the operation of the
Plant and the measurements of the Plant’s operations.
e. Refusing to provide other information properly requested by CounterPlaintiffs,
and to which Counter-Plaintiffs were entitled pursuant to the
License Agreement, the Term Sheet, the USQL Agreement, and/or the nature
of the purportedly (but in fact, not) independent work being done by Penon.
f. Preventing or blocking Counter-Plaintiffs from obtaining truthful information
about the Plant’s operations, the measurements of those operations, the role of
JMP, the use by JMP of steam provided by the Plant, the role of Penon, or the
bases for expenses or costs charged to Counter-Plaintiffs.
g. Charging Counter-Plaintiffs for services, expenses, and equipment that were
purportedly being used either for the benefit of, and to further the goals of,
Counter-Plaintiffs when in fact no such services, expenses, or equipment were
being used for Counter-Plaintiffs’ benefit.
143. The acts and practices alleged above, including in the prior paragraph, were
unconscionable, unfair, and deceptive. As such, they have been declared unlawful pursuant to
Section 501.204 of the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act (“FDUTPA”).
And the Feds:
Failure to Pay Taxes.
122. Prior to Leonardo and Rossi entering the License Agreement, it was well known
that Rossi had taxation issues with the Italian government, which even led to him facing criminal
tax charges in Italy.
123. As a result, the License Agreement has several carefully crafted provisions to
ensure that Leonardo and Rossi would comply with their tax obligations as they relate to any
payments from Counter-Plaintiffs.
124. First, the License Agreement (Section 12(j)) required a representation from both
Leonardo and Rossi that each has filed all necessary “tax returns or reports” and “has paid all
taxes required by any jurisdiction or subdivision or agency thereof” prior to entering the License
Agreement. License Agreement § 12(j).
125. Second, the License Agreement (Section 13.5) required each party to file all
necessary documentation and returns as to any tax applicable to its or his “respective revenues
derived . . . in respect of the E-Cat IP.”
. . .
128. Notwithstanding the foregoing, on information and belief, Leonardo and Rossi
have not paid their federal taxes on payments made to them from Counter-Plaintiffs, and have
not filed all tax returns or reports relating to payments made to them from Counter-Plaintiffs.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

Don't forget that IH can move for Summary Judgement and if the court agrees, there will be no jury, and it would mean that the court sees two things; Rossiclown can not prove what he said, and secondly IH can. Thus, no jury (not that it is a big deal as some seem to think), and more than likely the court crushing Rossiclown for being full of shit. The court at that point could also invoke penalties per Florida Statute § 57.105(1). Who thinks Rossiclown can afford to cover the Jones Day billing and IH expenses? Looks like the Miami Area Rossi-Johnson Real Estate Empire may take a big hit.
In addition, there are other sanctions the court can enact depending on how full of shit they think Rossiclown and/or his Attorney were.
What are the odds that an internationally famous and well regarded law firm are going to risk reputation and sanction verses a small inexperienced law shop utilizing the services of a recent career change construction contractor?
The counter-claim has started a 20 day clock for Rossiclown and Co. to respond with an Answer.
Pass the popcorn.
Upon the court’s initiative or motion of any party, the court shall award a reasonable attorney’s fee, including prejudgment interest, to be paid to the prevailing party in equal amounts by the losing party and the losing party’s attorney on any claim or defense at any time during a civil proceeding or action in which the court finds that the losing party or the losing party’s attorney knew or should have known that a claim or defense when initially presented to the court or at any time before trial:
(a) Was not supported by the material facts necessary to establish the claim or defense; or
(b) Would not be supported by the application of then-existing law to those material facts.
(2) At any time in any civil proceeding or action in which the moving party proves by a preponderance of the evidence that any action taken by the opposing party, including, but not limited to, the filing of any pleading or part thereof, the assertion of or response to any discovery demand, the assertion of any claim or defense, or the response to any request by any other party, was taken primarily for the purpose of unreasonable delay, the court shall award damages to the moving party for its reasonable expenses incurred in obtaining the order, which may include attorney’s fees, and other loss resulting from the improper delay.
Florida Statute § 57.105(1)
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

And here is what Rossiclown faces per Florida Statute § 501.201 Deceptive Practices:
(3) Upon motion of the enforcing authority or any interested party in any action brought under subsection (1), the court may make appropriate orders, including, but not limited to, appointment of a general or special magistrate or receiver or sequestration or freezing of assets, to reimburse consumers or governmental entities found to have been damaged; to carry out a transaction in accordance with the reasonable expectations of consumers or governmental entities; to strike or limit the application of clauses of contracts to avoid an unconscionable result; to order any defendant to divest herself or himself of any interest in any enterprise, including real estate; to impose reasonable restrictions upon the future activities of any defendant to impede her or him from engaging in or establishing the same type of endeavor; to order the dissolution or reorganization of any enterprise; or to grant legal, equitable, or other appropriate relief. The court may assess the expenses of a general or special magistrate or receiver against a person who has violated, is violating, or is otherwise likely to violate this part. Any injunctive order, whether temporary or permanent, issued by the court shall be effective throughout the state unless otherwise provided in the order.
Deceptive Practices
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

DancingFool
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 5:01 pm
Location: Way up north

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by DancingFool »

parallel wrote: IH admits filing "numerous patent applications." One filed in Europe was for “Method and Apparatus for Carrying out Nickel and Hydrogen Exothermal Reaction.” Also, the Italian Patent and Trademark Office (Ufficio italiano brevetti e marchi) issued Italian Patent No. 0001387256 (the “Italian Patent”) and that said patent was entitled “Processo ed apparecchiatura per ottenere reazioni esotermiche, in particolare da nickel ed idrogeno.”
Parallel, this is embarrassing.

The European patent application which you attribute to IH was submitted by Rossi in 2008, four years before IH came on the scene.

The Italian patent was issued to Rossi in 2011 (submitted in 2008), well before IH connected with Rossi.

Can't you at least get your facts straight? You repeatedly call ladajo a liar because he rejects your interpretations. Should we call you a liar because you make demonstrably false claims? Just asking.
Strange that they could write patents about a technology that doesn't work and tell investors like Woodford ($50 million) that it did.
Well, yes it is. It is exactly as strange as the devotion which some people (who shall remain nameless) show to Rossi's claims, and an obvious explanation is the same in both cases - in each case Rossi was believed to be honest. IH's behavior is consistent with their belief that Rossi's process would actually work, and that upon completion of the Performance Test Rossi would (per the licensing agreement) deliver all of the IP necessary to allow IH to produce working eCats. It is, in fact, as clear a piece of evidence as you could want that IH (at that time) still believed that Rossi was telling the truth. That IH now believes that Rossi is a fraud is in no way inconsistent with their believing in him 2 years ago.

As for the bad faith which Rossi (and you) attribute to His patent applications, you might keep in mind that Rossi was free to apply for these patents, and chose not to. In the absence of efforts by Rossi to protect his IP, if IH did not apply for patents themselves they faced the prospect of a third party doing so, receiving the patent, and IH's investment becoming worthless. As far as I know, the licensing agreement did not in any way obligate IH to do Rossi's work for him. In fact, it specifically laid the burden of maintaining patents on Rossi. If I'm wrong, feel free to quote from the agreement.

So, why didn't Rossi pursue patent protection? If you wish to argue that Rossi believed that his Italian and US patents fully protected his work, then there is no problem with IH's applications - they were sure to be rejected on the basis of Rossi's patents. If the IH applications really did have the potential to harm Rossi, then he stands exposed as woefully ignorant of the limitations of his patents. Given his earlier refusal to discuss various aspects of the eCat because the patent had not been issued, this explanation of Rossi's failure does not seem credible. Again, if Rossi is incompetent to protect his own work, nothing in the licensing agreement obligated IH to do Rossi's work for him. You may quote from the agreement if you disagree with me.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

Well. Whatever Rossiclown is thinking, it would appear to involve worry. He, and others on his side have significantly 'Lawyered-up' in the past two weeks. It would appear that his former contractor/lawyer was 'not enough'.

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/cas ... rden_et_al

I am very interested to see his answers for the counter-claims from IH.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by parallel »

A history lesson for the trolls.
http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/10/01/ar ... -mccarthy/

AA

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