LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Stubby
Posts: 877
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:05 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Stubby »

GIThruster wrote:
JoeP wrote:Also, people get pissed off because if (many will insist on when) this is proven a scam, it will be to the detriment of many, if not all LENR efforts, and might also cast a bit of a negative shadow on non-ITER fusion projects too. So a huge lie and fraud damages and will set legit people/projects back big time.
The most serious LENR exploration I'm aware of in this country is that by NASA, and they would be entirely unaffected should Rossi be shown a fraud.
Exactly.
Rossi being a purported fraud doesn't mean that LENR is impossible. it sure doesn't help its perception though.
Unsupported claim after unsupported claim does tend to stack up against it.
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

I agree fully. I have never said LENR is impossible or crazy. It needs better investigation.
I have however, after initially giving Rossi BOD when he first surfaced, am now convinced he is full of shit.
The posted link by Tom Clarke certainly adds one more nail into a well nailed coffin. I looked at the argument, dusted off some of my 3 phase power monitoring and think he makes a solid case. I recall hooking up analyzers and after a glance at the screen for wafeform and numbers that did not make sense, realizing I had a probe backwards and correcting it. Certainly looks like this may have been intentional, because if it was an honest mistake (twice), then that means these guys truly have no idea what they are doing.
I wonder how Rossibots will try to spin this one, not that I really care. For the cheif Rossicircus clown himself, I am failry sure he will start into a "Snakes" and "Conspiracy" tirade again, or just completely ignore it. He has plenty of past history demonstrating either when caught red handed.

I wonder if any one has posted this to his blog (the self proclaimed scientific journal, <giggle>) and called him out on it yet? Again, not that I really care.

Thanks for the update Tom. Amusing as always. Can't wait to hear Axil's next technobabble defense on it. It is always great comedy to see him hammering square pegs into round holes and claiming correllation and logic chains that are utter bullshit and indicative of a fundamental lack of understanding of what he is spouting off about.
Love to see him in the hallway in a professional context and watch him self gut. So easy to poke holes in the fantasies, it is not even required.
I salute your patience to try a few times to get him to realize the errors in his thinking. You probably have figured out that you are operating several levels above the self-idealistic smartest guy in the room fantasy that Axil lives in. I do enjoy reading his posts for comedic content. Can't wait for the next, which I am sure is coming!
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Asterix
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:08 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Asterix »

My guess is that Rossi will simply swap the probe housing around so that it appears to be correct. Naturally, this will be his own unit, contributed from the goodness of his heart.

You will probably never see him using a shunt ammeter or power meter. Much harder to deceive (but also very accurate).

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Axil »

The mechanism of LENR unmasked

http://phys.org/news/2014-11-electromag ... alled.html

Electromagnetic fluctuation forces across plasmas analogous to so-called weak nuclear interaction forces


New theoretical results tie EMF to processes that effect the dynamics that occur inside the nucleus as a expression of the weak force. This is exciting stuff for the LENR theorist. Mesons control what goes on inside the nucleus. Mesons are just a kind of plasmons that exist between two or more solids at very close distances. One example where this condition applies is the situation that exists in the very small plasmon filled spaces between nanoparticles. This implies that mesons are condensing virtual particles pairs that are equivalent to condensing virtual particle plasmons or sheets of realized positions/electron pairs formed at high energy caused by the Casimir force born in the small distances between nanoparticles.

I guest at this all along. Its good that it has been discovered.

See:

Casimir forces in a Plasma: Possible Connections to Yukawa Potentials

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1409.1032v1.pdf

This paper violates all the current thinking connected with the
standard model of particle physics. In a nutshell, the paper says that
nanoplasmonics can cause nuclear effects as a result of meson
production.


This could well be a theoretical research topic related to cold fusion
funded by some interesting and mainstream organizations. If you notice
the acknowledgment section of the paper, you will see who funded this research as follows:

MB and CP acknowledge support from the Research
Council of Norway (Contract No. 221469). MB also
thanks the Department of Energy and Process Engineering
(NTNU, Norway) for financial support. CP thanks
the Swedish Research Council (Contract No. C0485101)
for financial support. This work was supported by the
DFG (grant BU 1803/3-1). We thank Dr John Lekner for
pointing out the relevance for the analysis of the Poisson-
Jacobi formula (page 124, example 18 in Whittaker and
Watson)[41]

This paper proposes that nanoplasmonics can be used to manipulate and
control the weak force using the Casmir effect and through that weak
force, control the inner workings of the nucleus.

The major players in the science infrastructure of Norway and Sweden are
interested enough in this subject to pay good money to mainstream
scientists to buck the standard model of particle physics with this new theory.

Could there be a connection between this paper and the recent Robert Godes visit to Statoil in
Norway?

Image

In this picture of the meeting between Robert Godes and Statoil in
Norway, it looks like Pekka Haavisto is sitting at the head of the table.
At present, Pekka Haavisto serves as chairman of the Green Parliamentary
Group in the Finnish Parliament. The gentleman on the left of Godes with
the red hair is most likely Robert W. George II CEO of Brillouin


Robert Godes posted these tweets after the meeting
@Pawik it turns out oil companies have seen thermal excursions in their hydrogenation beds. It is a problem for them but LENR is the cause.

11:30 AM - 3 Nov 2014

and

@Pawik all but the most pathological disbelievers change their tune after talking with me. Had a great meeting at Statoil in Norway as well.
Why is Statoil interested in LENR? To understand this process engineering problem, they may have developed a interest.

http://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volum ... naway.html

RUST CATALYZED ETHYLENE HYDROGENATION CAUSES TEMPERATURE RUNAWAY

The petroleum industry has thermal runaway problems when micro particles contaminate hydrogen processing equipment.

Ed Storms tells a story of how Rossi first got interested in LENR when he saw a thermal runaway in a oil waste process. Does anyone remember the details of this story?

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Axil »

This is a peer reviewed nuclear physics magazine and Dr Uzikov is a preminent figure of the Russian Nuclear Physics world. Congratulations to the Professors of the ITP, this is an important endorsement from the mainstream Russian scientific environment. If you come in Russia you will find friends of much higher level than you can even imagine.

Below is a translation (via Google with edits by Frank Acland) of the article:

http://www.proatom.ru/modules.php?name= ... e&sid=5595

A Brief History of New Nuclear Energy Andrea Rossi

V.A. Uzikov, engineer-technologist, NIIAR

A second report on the results of a long-term test of the “hot E-CAT (Energy Catalyzer)” invented by Andrea Rossi was published Oct. 8, 2014, and caused some shock to those who follow this “saga of cold fusion,” but especially to the detractors of Rossi. Why specifically? Yes, for a simple reason – this 53-page scientific report is not easy to refute and rebut, but oh, how I want to ….

Earlier, for almost 4 years detractors managed to do it casually, beautifully and impressivelyy. It was enough to say the magic word “fake”, and the problem with the discussion of the generation of energy in the strange nickel-hydrogen systems could be removed without any effort.

It is worth recalling some of the basic steps of this “saga” about E-CAT … On January 14, 2011 there was a demonstration of a new energy device in Bologna with online translation. Here we first heard the names of Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi. Rossi is an engineer and Focardi a Professor of Physics at the University of Bologna … The Focardi demonstration was successful, and simple thermal calculations confirmed that the input energy is several times less than that spent on heating water flowing from the reactor [1] .

First, it seemed that the key figure in the creation of this wonderful reactor was a professor, but then it turned out that it was just the opposite. Those who want to quickly refute the demonstrations phenomenon exhaled with relief. All the same tezhelo and dangerous rogue called Professor prestigious Bologna universiteta (and even the former dean of the Physics Department) and with a long list of scientific achievements, and the engineer Rossi no such problem exists. Therefore, “the highest academic authorities”, such as the chairman of the “Committees on pseudoscience” in Alexandria, only deigning to provide short comments declaring Andrea Rossi a pseudoscientist [2] .

With this background, almost unnoticed, a 1-megawatt installation on 28 October 2011 passed acceptance testing; it worked for 6 hours without electricity input [3] (although at only half of the declared capacity – “only” 480 kW). The world’s media has successfully ignored this event, except for several articles (for example, in “Forbes”), which provide a fair share amount of skepticism. It should be noted that there were even Nobel laureates, who called to treat reactor Rossi seriously, but soon these were declared crazy old men and the problem is also closed ..

A further table even easier -privivka of curiosity (one of which was the fate of injections sad invention Fleischmann and Pons) gradually began to act. In addition, the constant comparison of Andrea Rossi with a mad inventor, “perpetual motion”, and other strange persons did not allow all these years to help separate the wheat from the chaff, and the people, hearing about E-CAT, already accustomed to waving his hand – “Heard ! Yes they are crooks! “.

And hardly noticeable event in the information field has passed presentation of “hot E-CAT”, even though a photo was published of a red-hot device. There was a surge of emotion at a reviving E-Cat was observed only after the publication of the report of the May [2013] [4] of short-term trials of a “hot E-Cat” by a group of Swedish and Italian scientists who conducted the test without Andrea Rossi, but after a brief confusion opponents quickly recovered and posted a heap of claims about this report. They did not dare declare these very respected scientists to be rogues, but presented the matter as the magician Rossi cheating by luring these scientists onto his territory, and catching them in his trap, as they did not notice hidden wires, some radiators and so on.

Not directly accusing scientists of fraud, they, nevertheless, were accused of incompetence, with the inability to perform an experiment, and the main argument was that Rossi provided them with “black box” magic, which is not allowed to be looked into, and if so, this is the usual illusion. And all was quiet again for a whole year, until the spring of 2014. And in the spring there were reports that already held a new, long-term experiment with E-CAT. And this time all claims debunkers were considered bitter experience of scientists fully: testing device was carried out on the territory of experts, during the entire time of the experiment (32 days) round-the-clock surveillance of all parameters was carried out, as well as video surveillance, with all data permanently recorded by recording equipment.

The condition of the pilot testing was only one – A. Rossi would have no effect on the course of the experiment, and experts would publish the results whatever they may be – positive or negative. In the following months after the experiment, interested supporters and opponents Rossi looked forward to the results, constantly asked him about it, but Rossi’s response was always the same – I have no idea about the results, I only know one thing – they will be published, positive or negative.

And then, finally, on 8 October 2014, on Internet sites like e-catworld.com appeared the long-awaited report. And this report met expectations Rossi supporters, and probably plunged into deep gloom of his opponents. The report results were surprising indeed even his supporters. The most stunning result was not even that 1 gram of nickel with natural isotopic abundance – and 0.011 grams of lithium 7 for 32 days produced 1.5 MWh of thermal energy (by this, many were ready on previous tests), but the radically changed the isotopic composition of nickel and lithium before and after the experiment (see Table). By the way, shutting the reactor off after 32 days was agreed beforehand, and at the time of shutdown of the reactor, it showed no signs of reducing the power output.

Table – The measured distribution of the isotopes of Li and Ni in the source and spent fuel, as well as the natural distribution of isotopes :

Image

The explosive strength of this table is that only a madman would further argue that in the E-CAT is a lack of response at the level of the nuclei. And here it is worth recalling, in early 2014, the current head of the RAS Forts said [5] : “I am a staunch supporter of that pseudoscience – a very dangerous thing – said fort. – … The theme requires constant attention. I recently received in the mail a hefty parcel. Opened – and there of a conference on cold fusion.”

He should have kept quiet, because sooner or later, when already clear evidence of the existence of low-energy nuclear reactions, gentlemen academicians have to report, what it is, after all, they were doing all these years, digging in an empty project, millions and billions of people’s money. Of course, you can string up again and declare that all the scientists who participated in the experiment for testing, purchased cheater Rossi, and the results are forged, but too late – the train has already left.

The next day after the publication of the report, October 9 2014, CEO of Elforsk (Swedish institute engaged in research in the field of energy) Magnus Olofsson wrote an article [6] in response to the report of the test E-Cat. Here are some of the key points that he highlights:

– Changes in the isotopic composition of the analyzed fuel shows that nuclear reactions take place at low temperatures. This suggests that we may be facing a new method of extracting nuclear energy. It is possible to obtain energy without ionizing radiation and radioactive waste. The discovery may eventually become very important for the global energy industry;

– If it is now possible to receive and safely control these nuclear reactions, it is likely to eventually happen fundamental transformation of our energy system. This could open up opportunities for decentralized power generation and thermal energy can be obtained from relatively simple components. Energy is very cheap;

– Elforsk initiates comprehensive research in Sweden. Need more knowledge to understand and explain the observed phenomena. Let’s do more research in the study of the essence of these phenomena, which would then explain how it works.

Our academic science can certainly continue to pretend that nothing happened, that’s only if there is more to the point?

Loner engineer Andrea Rossi in the long struggle for the recognition of his discovery did the seemingly impossible. But it only seems impossible, unless one is aware of one of the episodes [7] in his biography. At the age of 19, Rossi would do what in some ways symbolizes his future life. The challenge was a “simple”, run as much as possible in the track stadium 400 m for 24 hours without interruption. On April 24, 1970 Andrea Rossi completed the race in the stadium Kalsevi in ​​Brescia. Within 24 hours, he ran 175 kilometers and 144 meters, breaking the previous Italian record set in 1891 by the legendary Luigi Vittorio Bertarelli (this record was held for 79 years!). Probably around this there is a certain logic, and in this scientific marathon Andrea Rossi finishes winner again.

[1] http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/ ... i-Expt.pdf

[2] In defense of science, Bulletin number 12: http://moi-vzn.narod.ru/VZN_12.PDF

[3] http://pesn.com/2011/10/28/9501940_1_MW ... uccessful/

[4] http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913

[5] http://www.gazeta.ru/science/2014/02/05_a_5882517.shtml

[6] http://www.nyteknik.se/asikter/debatt/a ... 854541.ece

[7] http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/fo ... GEN_1=120A

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Axil »

Pictures of the newest Big-cat under customer test from Rossi's new web site

http://andrea-rossi.com/1mw-plant/

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by parallel »

LENR has now been replicated by MFMP, Elforst (twice) at Lugano, and Dr. Parkhomov, independently in Russia, twice. A rough translation of his paper given yesterday is posted below. There is now no doubt that LENR is real so it follows Rossi was telling the truth and his E-Cat works. Industrial Heat LLC have built a 1 MW plant that has been running for about 3 months as part of a one year test.

PARKHOMOV's THIRD PRESENTATION.

The complete presentation is at: https://yadi.sk/i/zTRxBwVofYmaE

THE TEXT

AGP-3

Results of the long-time testing of the new variant of the analog of thermogenerator of Rossi
By Alexander Georgevich Parkhomov.

The experiments with the devices similar with Rossi’s thermogenerator- about which I spoke at the previous seminars have shown that the mixtures of nickel and aluminum hydride heated in a hermetically closed ceramic tube to temperatures over 1100 C effectively prodice heat, significantly more than the used energy.
But the working time of these reactor is too short to produce measurable isotopic changes and also to show that the release of the excess heat is caused by cold nuclear transmutations.
For achieving longer continuous work durations we had to change much the construction of the reactor. First of we had to
Renounce to the calorimetry used based on the measurement of the quantity of evaporated water because it is difficult to make all day addition of water.

The construction of the reactor for long time work.

The tube of the reactor aimed for long time work is 29 cm long and so only its central part is heated. Due to low thermal conductivity of the ceramic he ends of the tube are not very warm (at 1200 C in the center the ends are not warmer that 50C; this allows the use of epoxy adhesive for closing the tube.
For heating we have used resistor Х23Ю5Т (Kanthal A1)
That is working up to 1400 C.
The fuel mixture (640 mg Ni + 60 mg LiAlH4 is in a container of thin stainless steel. For displacing the air from the tube we have used ceramic filling/liners.
The manometer with a limit of measurement of 25 bars is connected with the reactor with a thin tube of stainless steel.

Reactor during testing
Heating of reactor to working temperature.
Measuring pressure during the heating process
The increase of pressure starts around 100 C. Maximum pressure of approx 5 bar was attained at 189C after this pressure starts to fal and at 900C is smaller than atmospheric. Greatest decrease ( 0.5 bar) at 1150 C then starts to increase slowly to atmospheric.

Heating reactor to working temperature
The temperature 0f 1200C at the surface of he working tube was attained in 12 hours of stepwise increase of power of the electrical heater up to 630W. After this the power necessary to maintain the temperature of 1200C decreases in 1 hour to 330W
The power of heating during almost 4 days till the burning out of the heater
For almost 3 days the power necessary to maintain the temperature of the reactor tube at 1200C was in the limits of 300-400W. Before the burning out, the power started to increase and at burning out it was at 600W
The burning out was caused by stepwise oxidation of the resistor.

Working of the reactor with the new heater
The temperature of 1200C was maintained with using the power of heater of 500-700W.

The power necessary for maintaining the given temperature.

At temperatures over 700 C the reactor with fuel consumes less electrical energy than that necessary for the reactor with no fuel. This shows the presence of a heat source besides the electrical heater.
For heating to the temperature of 1200 C the power necessary for reactor with no fuel is 1100 W, for reactors with fuel first we need 650W and after an hour 300- 330 W.
From this we can evaluate that the excess heat is 800W. The thermal coefficient COP is 1100/330= 3.3
But this is only a rough estimate not considering the differences between processes of thermo-generation with and without fuel.

When there is no internal heat source, the temperatures outside and inside are the same and the temperature measured with the thermocouple is equal with the temperature measured with the temperature of the surface of the heater.
When the reactor works with fuel a thermal flux is started from inside to outside that leads to a temperature gradient. Therefore the temperature measured with the thermocouple is greater than the temperature of the surface of the heater.

At the temperature of 1200C in the proximity of the thermocouple the temperature of the surface of the heater is 1070 C. Thus so the reactor produces only the heat necessary without fuel to heat to 1070C that is 800W and not 1100.
The thermal coefficient is COP= 800/330=2.4.

Container with fuel after extraction of the tube of the reactor. Sided by ceramic inserts.

Fuel after extraction from the container.

Image of the used fuel at optical microscope.

Conclusions.

1. The apparatus worked continuously for more than 3 days, producing more than twice as much as the applied electrical energy. 50 kWh or 18MJ were produced in excess of the electrical energy expended. This amount of energy could be obtained by burning 350g of petroleum products.

2. The reactor chamber pressure during slow burning was relatively low (in this experiment up to 5 bar)

3. The used fuel had the appearance of soft droplets of golden color mixed with grey powder.

4. The resultant used fuel mixture was sent for analysis of atomic and isotopic composition. But the results, unfortunately, have not yet been received.

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2015/03 ... -text.html

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by GIThruster »

parallel wrote:There is now no doubt that LENR is real so it follows Rossi was telling the truth and his E-Cat works.
You have some unusual notions about the nature of doubt. I promise you, there will be a great deal of doubt for years, but it is starting to seem Rossi may not be guilty of all he's been accused of.

I have never been especially critical of Rossi. I'm not even that critical of Mills. I am however noting to you, that when you use language like this, you continue to make yourself appear as one with no notion of how science works, nor the proper criteria for measuring scientific warrant for belief. The jury will be out on this for a long time, so you need to stop with the congratulations and act more sensibly. You don't need to ever say "I told you so". The facts will eventually speak for themselves and the truth will win out.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by parallel »

I'm not alone in saying there is no reasonable doubt left, at least from unbiased scientists who have studied it.
Of course the pathological skeptics and trolls will continue to pollute the thread, which I why I stay away from it except for occasional visits with an update.

I don't think general application of LENR will be particularly fast, but what I'm hoping is there is now enough evidence to persuade group think academia to look at the subject and come up with a reasonable theory to explain it.

GIThruster
Posts: 4686
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:17 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by GIThruster »

parallel wrote:I'm not alone in saying there is no reasonable doubt left, at least from unbiased scientists who have studied it.
Of course the pathological skeptics and trolls will continue to pollute the thread, which I why I stay away from it except for occasional visits with an update.
There is no such thing as an unbiased scientist, and you can have no way to make an adult judgment about the emotional and psychological states of people you've never met, except of course to note that people are predisposed to find what they look for. Noting that science works the way it does, does not make anyone a "pathological skeptic" and again, you need to grow up and stop using the kind of language you're using, as it mitigates against taking you seriously.

There is a lot of pathological science around, and this obscures lots of legitimate science. For you to presume these folks in Russia are unbiased and justified in saying there is no reasonable doubt left, simply demonstrates you are not making adult judgements. And I would note to you, that your emotionally inflamed language predisposes everyone you have as audience, to think you're a squinty little kid who can't win a single point in debate, without acting out. Stop acting out! Let the facts speak for themselves, or what you will surely find is, your evangelistic efforts in favor of LENR will have precisely the opposite effect you should be hoping for.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Carl White
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:44 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Carl White »

Disappointed that some valid criticism of Parkhomov has appeared (on the EEStory website of all places).

http://theeestory.ning.com/forum/topics ... 4#comments

There's the possibility of fraud here.

JoeP
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by JoeP »

Carl White wrote:Disappointed that some valid criticism of Parkhomov has appeared (on the EEStory website of all places).

http://theeestory.ning.com/forum/topics ... 4#comments

There's the possibility of fraud here.
Could simply be an algorithmic issue with the graphing program. In other words, the plots end up look the same when the input level has low levels of noise, due to the way the code is written and the platform it executes on. But it does look like a bad photoshop job. Some photoshop/GIMP experts might be able to obtain layering and editing information evidence from the graphic file if it hasn't been fully reprocessed.

krenshala
Posts: 914
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:20 pm
Location: Austin, TX, NorAm, Sol III

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by krenshala »

If the image isn't a layered format, and the vast majority of images display on web pages are not layered formats, then you will not be able to get any layering information from it. By altering the color palette (inverting the color being the easiest method) you may be able to reveal clear signs that portions of the image were copied and pasted, however, especially if the source image was a jpeg that was then modified (the jpeg compression leaves noticible artifacting that are not immediately visible with the 'normal' palette). Other image formats may provide less evidence of tampering, if any exists.

Ivy Matt
Posts: 711
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 6:43 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by Ivy Matt »

Has anyone replicated those isotopic shifts yet? There's a market for enriched isotopes, you know.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

pbelter
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:52 am

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by pbelter »

Carl White wrote: There's the possibility of fraud here.

When multiple seemingly unrelated people are trying to deceive the public about the same thing it is no longer just fraud,

it is CONSPIRACY :D

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