LENR Is Real

[ladajo]

Oh look Mommy! More delays from Rossi!

What an amazing surprise!

[Axil]

http://physics.aps.org/articles/v7/72

Plasma Extremes Seen through Gas Bubble

There are a lot of electrons produced by Sonoluminescence during cavitation bubble collapse.

Within this model, they calculated an electron density of (more than) 10^^21 electrons per cubic centimeter, which agrees with a previous sonoluminescence experiment in acid that used a different technique. By comparison, ICF researchers aim for around 10^^23 electrons per cubic centimeter to ignite fusion.

This is a lower limit only on electron numbers in cavatation. The Key to LENR is energy concentration made possible by producing huge amounts of electrons in the smallest possible volume. Cavitation is yet another way to produce such electron concentrations.

I suspect that these electrons organize themselves into a soliton because of the very tranquil nature of their production in the collapsing bubble. Unlike ICF fusion attempts, the movement of LENR based electron ensembles will tend to for a vortex ring as these electron collections self-rotate, condense and arrogate together.

In point of general fact, it is not the quantity of the electron production, but the organized way this electron ensemble moves together that produces LENR.

In the NiH reactor, there are about 6.86 10^^23 electrons in each soliton. Each soliton is highly compact being just 10s of nanometers across.

An indication that the electrons are entangled with photons to from surface plasmon polaritons (SPP) is that when the bubble cycle is over, an intense flash of XUV light is emitted as the elections and photons are de-entangled.

The freed electrons deflect off of atoms or ions, causing them to emit photons in a picosecond-long flash of light (a process called thermal bremsstrahlung).

They are speculating. Thermal bremsstrahlung is not the cause of the flash. The flash is caused by polariton de-entanglement in the same fashion as photon de-entanglement forms the laser pulse produced in the polariton laser..

There is a one-to-one correspondence between the number of photons in the bright ultra-blue flash and the number of electrons that formed the bubble based polariton soliton.

The polariton is a boson which removes the limits on the concentration imposed on the electrons by the fermion applicable Pauli exclusion rule.

ICF must fight this exclusion rule whereas LENR does not.

It seems that a group of orthodox scientist is getting into LENR via a back door, they just don’t know it yet. Well better late than never.

[JoeP]

Oh look Mommy! More delays from Rossi!

What an amazing surprise!

Well, despite my doubts about Rossi and his E-Cat, I did think what he said here is very reasonable, insofar as the 3rd party 6mo test report comment.

Andrea Rossi

June 29th, 2014 at 9:46 AM

Giuliano Bettini:
I edited your text for obvious reasons, conserving the meaning of it. You must know that the peer reviewing of a scientific publication usually takes 6 months as an average.
The experiment made by the Third Independent Party is important, as you correctly wrote, and the Professors, to avoid criticisms, need all the time necessary to publish results of which they need to be sure beyond any reasonable doubt, also considering all the experience and the critics made during and after the 2013 experiment. It is not just matter of patience, it is also matter of respect for serious scientific work. The reviewing must take all the time it needs on the base of a serious and exhaustive analysis of the results, positive or negative as they might be.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Its not just Rossi. Even though most of the scientists involved in this experiment are friendly to Rossi, they all have real careers and reputations to protect. So I am interested in seeing the parameters of this experiment, and any improvements that have made that take account of the critiques from the first paper.

[Asterix]

Its not just Rossi. Even though most of the scientists involved in this experiment are friendly to Rossi, they all have real careers and reputations to protect. So I am interested in seeing the parameters of this experiment, and any improvements that have made that take account of the critiques from the first paper.

Amazing, simply amazing. You're basing this on what, Rossi sitting behind his laptop writing this stuff and giggling while he does it? Provide a statement from another reliable source that this is true--you'd think that since IH supposedly now owns the technology, that they'd come out with an official statement on corporate letterhead.

Why do they allow Rossi to keep jabbering?

[JoeP]

Its not just Rossi. Even though most of the scientists involved in this experiment are friendly to Rossi, they all have real careers and reputations to protect. So I am interested in seeing the parameters of this experiment, and any improvements that have made that take account of the critiques from the first paper.

Amazing, simply amazing. You're basing this on what, Rossi sitting behind his laptop writing this stuff and giggling while he does it? Provide a statement from another reliable source that this is true--you'd think that since IH supposedly now owns the technology, that they'd come out with an official statement on corporate letterhead.

Why do they allow Rossi to keep jabbering?

Asterix, actually I don't follow what you are asking exactly. It is no secret that there is a 6 month test in progress. I don't remember all the sources, since I do not follow Rossi's saga with the religious fervor of some members on this very forum, but some Googling will likely reveal that. If you were one of the authors of the document that will be prepared to show the results of this experiment, would you not be prudent after the conclusion of the test to write a paper that details the experiment, the results, and the parameters and controls with as much rigor as possible and not rush to publication?

That is pretty obvious stuff. So that is why I think I do not understand your "amazedness" at my statement and think I do not understand what you are getting at.

[Asterix]

JoeP, we *think* there has been some sort of test (whose results were to originally have been published in, well, pick a date) because Rossi said so. No announcement from anyone else in IH. No independent tester statements corroborating Rossi.

Allow me to put it this way: were you to dump (reportedly) 7 or 8 figures into an effort, would you allow the same guy to keep writing about it? Wouldn't you coordinate press releases through a controlled source? Yet, we know of no other executive in a position to say anything about Rossi's efforts. We know of no corporate officers who have commented.

Just Rossi--and he's claimed a lot of things over the years--even after he has stated earlier that he's not involved in day-to-day e-cat commercialization.

Whatever happened to the unit that he heated his shop with back in 2010? How about that "military customer" who received an early 1MW e-cat back in 2012? Whatever happened to the dozen or so 1MW e-cats that he claimed he was constructing in the USA and had customers for? How about the US roboticized factory to pump out home e-cats by the hundreds?

All I've got here is a couple of questionable demonstrations and a lot of Rossi says.

Would you really run a multimillion dollar operation that way if it was your money?

[Axil]

Rossi and his backers need a credible non-trivial third party test as evidentiary support to successfully apply for a patent. No matter how skeptical that the patent office may be, the patent office will have no alternative but to grant a patent if evidence of a working system is undeniable.

Rossi’s backers need the results of this test to be successful and made public to move forward with their intellectual property protection strategy.

Rossi is no longer in control of business strategy. All that Rossi craziness and subterfuge is now a thing of the past.

Don't let this change deter you from continuing your campaign to discredit Rossi and his technology. The longer that Rossi and his technology seems non threatening, the more penetration that LENR can achieve without organized resistance.

The Chinese and especially the Russians will engaged in aggressive economic and political espionage campaign against the use of LENR outside of their own spheres of influence and control when they realize what a great competitive threat and a valuable commodity to control that LENR is. To avoid external compromise from hostile interests, the LENR marketplace should stay black for as long as possible until all possible development is completed and the first release of the product is bulletproof.

Let us hope that the reputation of LENR is so bad that the release of the Rossi test results stay obscured and in ill-repute.

I am hoping that you all will continue to do your best to undercut this third party test. Keep up the good work and don't be discouraged by the evidence of mounting success in LENR development.

[JoeP]

JoeP, we *think* there has been some sort of test (whose results were to originally have been published in, well, pick a date) because Rossi said so. No announcement from anyone else in IH. No independent tester statements corroborating Rossi.

Allow me to put it this way: were you to dump (reportedly) 7 or 8 figures into an effort, would you allow the same guy to keep writing about it? Wouldn't you coordinate press releases through a controlled source? Yet, we know of no other executive in a position to say anything about Rossi's efforts. We know of no corporate officers who have commented.

Just Rossi--and he's claimed a lot of things over the years--even after he has stated earlier that he's not involved in day-to-day e-cat commercialization.

Whatever happened to the unit that he heated his shop with back in 2010? How about that "military customer" who received an early 1MW e-cat back in 2012? Whatever happened to the dozen or so 1MW e-cats that he claimed he was constructing in the USA and had customers for? How about the US roboticized factory to pump out home e-cats by the hundreds?

All I've got here is a couple of questionable demonstrations and a lot of Rossi says.

OK, thanks for clarifying. Again, just going from memory, I thought there were reports of at least some statements from the principle scientists involved from the first paper about the follow-on. I spent about five minutes searching and all I found was some second hand reports of statements outside of what Rossi has stated. I did not dig very much, but the surface of it supports your stance on that.

So, I appreciate the correction. Like I said, I don't spend a lot of time following everything, nor do I read things like the various Rossi-supporter websites, unless someone posts a link that seems interesting that contains some actual news.

Still, just going from what I have seen from Rossi thus far, I find it somewhat unlikely that he is touting a 6-month test and a forthcoming paper, repeatedly, without there being an actual test going on. He said as much about the first "test," as well as the paper, and that did materialize. I'm not arguing for or against the findings in that paper, I am simply stating that I do not doubt that such scientists that are reportedly involved will want to protect their reputations even if they are optimistic about what Rossi's contraption is supposed to accomplish -- especially with a follow on to the original paper, which was criticized. This is the essence of Rossi's post of which I was quoting.

Would you really run a multimillion dollar operation that way if it was your money?

Nice point. I personally would not. However, they did invest, and the DO allow the guy to run his mouth. That much is true.

[ladajo]

Or did they...

[paperburn1]

Cherokee is known for setting up LLC and donating 20000 dollars to help projects. This is what I think happened.
JT Vaughn manages Industrial Heat. He is the founder of Cherokee McDonough Challenge, an accelerator for environmental startups, and a leader in the startup community in the Research Triangle.

http://cherokeechallenge.com/

[Asterix]

So you don't think that Rossi got $14 million or whatever he said?

With that much money, you'd think that you'd at least be seeing help-wanted advertisements for IH. That we don't makes me even more suspicious that we're looking at a small "seed" grant and a promise of more if things work out. The way Rossi's posting still makes him seem like a very small operation; not much more than Andrea and a couple of his friends...

[Axil]

So you don't think that Rossi got $14 million or whatever he said?

With that much money, you'd think that you'd at least be seeing help-wanted advertisements for IH. That we don't makes me even more suspicious that we're looking at a small "seed" grant and a promise of more if things work out. The way Rossi's posting still makes him seem like a very small operation; not much more than Andrea and a couple of his friends...

One of the most pressing needs of LENR research is to keep it secret. Lots of workers make secret keeping difficult especially if they at not threatened by going to jail as per the US government.

A small team of trusted hard workers is best to develop a secret system.

[Asterix]

Bull. If secrecy were really the case, Rossi wouldn't be posting on JoNP or anywhere else. Requests for information would go unanswered. You wouldn't even have a clue that nickel or hydrogen was involved. If, as Rossi claims, he's not in an executive position at IH, but rather just their Chief Scientist, IH would be taking serious risks by letting him talk at all for the company. Press releases would be issued from the PR person and no one else.

My take is this:

He got the "seed money" from the folks at Cheyenne (their own web site says that they do that) and was promised a bunch more if he could prove that he has a real working device. This is the $14M they're talking about and I venture that it's not available to Rossi; it's just an escrow account held in the name of IH until released by hard proof of the technology.

I think that's what the Rossi followers don't understand. And I'm certain that IH/Cheyenne has the right to do their own verification as well before Rossi sees a penny of that $14M.

All of this would explain why Rossi can still talk and why he has no control over the test. For all we know, the tests have been performed and were negative or inconclusive at best and so will not be published. Cheyenne is not a publicly held firm and so has no obligation to release any information--and they'd be wise not to if Rossi has nothing, rather than admit their own incompetence.

Forget Rossi and what he says. Forget LENR. Use your mind and look at what's going on in terms of business practice.

[MSimon]

All that Rossi craziness and subterfuge is now a thing of the past.

Really?

I think Rossi still has the con (a Naval term that might be interpreted in other ways given who Rossi is, or was, or still is).

[MSimon]

The Chinese and especially the Russians will engaged in aggressive economic and political espionage campaign against the use of LENR outside of their own spheres of influence and control when they realize what a great competitive threat and a valuable commodity to control that LENR is.

I dunno. Polywell is pretty much an open book. The Chinese or Russians, or Indians, or Germans, or ..... could run a program for rounding error in the national budgets. And yet we hear nothing. And Polywell physics is mainstream - the theories are at least 50 years old. Maybe 100. So where is the action from other interests?