LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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paperburn1
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by paperburn1 »

A rule of thumb is 10,000 volts per 1 cm of spark. At 1 million volts you will get 1 meter long sparks shooting around. Also, regardless what way you will generate high voltage, there will always be some capacitance involved. From basic physics, the energy stored in a capacitor is proportional to voltage squared. At 1 million volts, even a relatively small internal capacitance can unload a lethal charge.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

What is clear, from the exchange, is that Rossiclown has no idea what he is talking about.
Looks like QuackX is an arclight, nothing more.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by paperburn1 »

Yep
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

Rossiclown is facing significant sanctions on April 20th where the court will decide a motion filed by IH for Rossiclown's destruction of evidence. This one does not look good for Rossiclown.
The court will also decide two other motions, by Rossiclown against IH, both probably to be dismissed.

Also pending are Rossiclown's and IH's respective Motions for Summary Judgement against each other. Of the two, IH's appears plausible and more likely to succeed. Rossiclown's reads as vaporware, true to his form. We shall see.

Rossi is full of shit and deserves to go back to jail. Again.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

parallel
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by parallel »

Investigation of the heat generator similar to Rossi reactor
http://www.unconv-science.org/pdf/7/parkhomov-en.pdf

paperburn1
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by paperburn1 »

Well I will be darn, somebody finally stuck one into a bucket of water :D
First level question is: lithium aluminum hydride Decomposes to lithium hydride, aluminum metal and hydrogen at those temperatures so how much thermal energy is added to the reaction, and second level question : Is there enough O2 present to allow a slow burn of the hydrogen produced
what size it the nichrome wire and length of wire.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

DancingFool
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by DancingFool »

ladajo -

Most interesting is the Rick Smith Supplementary Expert Report (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... TF6c2NtZkk Exhibit 235-10). He points out a number of entertaining problems with the JMP installation.

1) The eCat outlet pipe which he measured had an ID of 4.5 inches, which produces a steam velocity of 145 mph at max input power - assuming that the power recorded is valid. But see point 4.

2) The eCat water pumps were only capable of pumping about 500 kW worth of water at the steam temperatures and pressures reported by Penon. Given that the maximum power reported by Penon was nearly 900 kW, it's clear that his numbers are not to be trusted.

3) The "heat exchanger" which Rossi asserts was operating to condense used steam was claimed to have been installed in a room which shows no signs of that installation. The hot air was claimed to have been exhausted through a window which was not, in fact, removed, by fans which would have required 25 horsepower of electrical power which was not available, and would have produced an air velocity through the only door to the room of 27 mph.

4) Penon''s electrical power totals showed a total power input of about 80 kWh on a day (7 Apr 2015) when there was no power.

5) All taken in all, Smith argues that, in fact, no steam was produced. The entire system simply circulated hot water. Since the return water to the eCat was (as I recall from another report), about 76 C, the power consumed by the eCat was only required to raise the water to 100 C, with no phase change to steam. Consequently, COP is meaningless.
Last edited by DancingFool on Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.

DancingFool
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by DancingFool »

On a broader front, the release of various depositions (even though heavily excerpted) allows the reconstruction of the process by which JM Products occurred, and some interesting sidelights.

Primary depositions can be found at https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... TF6c2NtZkk

Exhibit 194-08 - Deposition of JM Products via Andrea Rossi

Exhibit 207-37 - Deposition of Henry Johnosn

Timeline -

14 June 2014 - Henry Johnson forms the Platinum American Trust, with himself as trustee and Francesco DiGiovanni, an Italian national, as beneficiary.

DiGiovanni is accompanied by Andrea Rossi. The reason for creating the trust is to hide ("The concept was to keep the ultimate beneficial ownership private.") the ownership of JM Chemical Products. During the next 2+ years, until ca November 2016, Johnson, the trustee of PAT, had no communication of any kind with DiGiovanni.

27 June 2014 Henry Johnson incorporates JM Chemical Products, Inc, with himself as director, president,, treasurer and secretary. At no time was there such as position as CEO of JMP. At no time was there a board of directors. Less than two months later, at the direction of Andrea Rossi, he changes the name to JM Products, Inc.

Johnson claims almost perfect ignorance of the company which he heads. He describes his role as
" I was not involved in what J.M. Products was doing. I was involved in keeping the corporation straight and, again, the creation of the trust, that sort of thing. I wasn't involved in day-to-day operations."
For this hands-off function, he was presumably remunerated, but the section concerning this has been excepted from his deposition.

Andrea Rossi referred to himself as the director (small d) of JMP, and made all decisions. He also controlled all financial dealings, both of JMP and of Leonardo Corp concerning the Doral operation.

At this time, JM Chemical Products has no physical plant and no employees.

ca 1- 2 July 2014 Rossi introduces the idea of performing the GPT in coordination with JMP, selling steam for their "product".

3 July 2014 Darden comments in email,
I want to do all I can to help Andrea get the plant running and to have a good test, clearly, but am very torn about the test being in FL. It is far away from the rest of the country , and it isn't a credible venue generally (Miami). I doubt we will have unrestricted access to the plant all the time, which could be problematic. And, we don't care about the money they will pay us, generally speaking.

OTOH, it will be convenient for Andrea, and our goal is to help him any way we can. And the company sounds pretty credible. So, broadly,we are confused about what to do. I think there is little if any gain in credibility from having the test in an independent factory compared to having it in the factory next door to us (which used to be owned by my wife's uncle, but he sold it years ago). Having it in a factory near Andrea probably harms credibility as much as or more than having it near us. But obviously Andrea disagrees.
5 July 2014 Rossi writes to Darden
In the incoming meeting we will have next week, please allow me to encourage you to take a
decision regarding where to put at work our 1 MW plant. I really and strongly hope you will
consider the solution I found, to rent it to JM, in its factory in Florida where they will use it to
process their chemical products. Please think carefully before losing them. They are positive to us,
but in September must start and they must know asap if they have to use our plant or provide
otherwise.
Note that there is no JMP plant and no employees.

30 July 2014 - Rossi emails Darden
I am sure that after 3-4 month they will put another CEO if the plant go well, and that they will disclose themselves. Now NOT. There have been no way to obtain this.
Note that Rossi is speaking of himself in the third person plural, and that JMP has no CEO.
You will be allowed to say to your investors that Johnson Matthey is the main supplier of JMC and the same buys from JMC all the product not bought by other customers.
Here Rossi speaks entirely the truth in an entire lie. There is nothing Rossi (JMP) can do if IH decides to lie to their investors. And, since Rossi may have actually bought platinum sponge from Johnson Matthey (although this is unproven at this time), Johnson Matthey may well be considered the "main supplier" of JMP. However, there is no evidence at this time that Johnson Matthey would have bought "product" from JMP, even if such product existed. Rossi, of course, has refused to identify the "product" of JMP, claiming industrial secret.

7 August 2014 In a Certification of OFAC to IH, Johnson asserts that
JMP is owned by an entity formed in the United Kingdom
despite having formed PAT one month earlier. In deposition, Johnson claims that a UK trust had been intended, but the cost was too high.

15 August 2014 - IH, Rossi and Johnson sign the Term Sheet (Exhibit 207-45).

1 September 2014 - Rossi (as Leonardo Corp) takes over the Doral plant, and sublets a portion to JMP. Leonardo promises to pay 1000 dollars per day per MW of steam. No rent is charged to JMP. Instead, Rossi claims in deposition that
But that was on the base of a contract that -- of an agreement that there was between J.M. and Leonardo Corporation and this agreement foresaw that Leonardo Corporation was going to pay all the bills and expenses for the day by day activity of J.M. as a compensation for products that Leonardo Corporation was going to buy from J.M.
Note the careful choice of words, There was apparently no contract between JMP and Leonardo. Rather than a contract, there was an "agreement", which was probably negotiated by Rossi looking in a mirror and bargaining with himself. With no written contract, it will be necessary to take Rossi's word on the matter.

February 2015 The GPT begins. Despite Rossi's claim to Darden that a September start was critical, it has taken Rossi 5 months to get the test running.

February 2016 The GPT concludes.

5 April 2016 Rossi sues IH/IPH.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.

JoeP
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by JoeP »

That about sums it up!

Shell game.

DancingFool
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by DancingFool »

paperburn1 - conplete combustion of 1 g of nickel and 0.1 g of LiAlH4 will produce about 7 or 8 kJ of energy (using standard enthalpy of formation). This compares with total energy production of about 2000 to 3000 kJ for the major runs - much less than 1% even assuming sufficient oxygen.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

So, I thought I would share an observation based on keeping a weather eye to the LENR Forum Rossi v.s Darden developments thread.

First, the folks over there are having a fantastically funny discussion with Rossibots challenging them to prove negatives. It is sad, and patent trolling by those seeking to "defend" the clown by "seeking the truth", as they like to claim. If anything, the end result of this tragicomic story will be a fascinating study in human delusional tendencies.

Second, it is apparent from the discussions currently revolving around steam generation closed cycles that most engaged have not ever worked with steam plants, nor have any understanding of enthalpy, or basic physics for that matter. They can't seem to grasp that the error in Rossiclown's ways, as with any great fraudster, is right in their faces.

Supply water is at atmospheric pressure (condensate tank open to air). This tank then either gravity feeds or is pumped to "E-cats". Thus the water in the E-Cat must by definition by at a higher pressure than the 'atmospheric' feed tank. In addition, this water is now also heated, and in a sealed (mostly, lots of leaks apparently) container, and thus introduces yet another source of pressure. (Basic physics here, contained water, when heated, rises in pressure...)

Now, this fluid (without pumps), moves to the work phase (Ie. the "JMP Factory and Secret Processes"). In a steam cycle, the energy (enthalpy) carried up to the work is stored, and some of it is released during the work extraction process. In a turbine plant, we would see steam header pressure and temp (and flow) up to the turbine. Then work is performed (energy extracted), and on the back side of the turbine you will see drops primarily in pressure, however also temp, which corresponds to the amount of work done. The "waste heat", is still present as enthalpy (energy) in the steam exiting the turbine which is the energy NOT used to do work. This must be exhausted in order to set up the fluid for it's next cycle.

Now, we waste heat, or in other words; discard unused energy, via the condensing process. This is typically done with a large, low pressure high flow heat exchanger, being cooled by an external heat sink (cooling water). The process of cooling drops primarily temperature, and in turn collapses the steam to fluid across the condenser, and normally creates a vacuum given the LARGE difference in density between steam and water. Thus, the "hotwell" of a condenser is at a vacuum, and this also helps efficiency of the steam cycle, by creating a larger pressure delta across the turbine (work extraction device). What is funny over at LENR Forum, is that the Trolls are either ignorantly or purposefully ignoring the work extraction phase requirement of the cycle, by insisting that the E-Cats output lines are at a vacuum... thus explaining the documented temperatures as surely "superheated steam". Truly idiots.

Once we have condensed, then normal plants will have condensate pumps, which are designed to pump from a vacuum to pressure. After this, there is another larger more powerful (Feedwater) pump going from pressure to high pressure and flow to push sufficient water to the boiler to start the cycle again.

Sooo... flaws in the Rossiclown steam cycle:

Feedwater tank at atmospheric. The only way to move water to the E-Cats is gravity pumping (adds pressure) or pump pumping (which we know there was, given the documented positive displacement metering feedpumps for each E-Cat boiler.

Each Boiler heats the water and makes "steam" in a closed tank (E-cat), which then provides expanding "steam" (1400 times the volume), and heat pressure to the working fluid. From this, we can see that the output header (probably 40mm DN40) from each bank is more than "Atmospheric", unlike claimed and "Data" recorded and reported.

This pressurized fluid (I don't think it is all steam, or maybe any given the numbers I have looked at and run) then flows to the Work.

Rossiclown's work is a large serpentine piping construct, with probably (based on court doc submissions) a couple of 'insert' wells you can put powder in (which do not break the pressure boundary). These wells supposedly had Platinum Sponge (really platinum powder), which 'absorbed heat' (not really, once they heat saturated) and underwent a high scale (1MW) endothermic reaction. Big issue here is that Rossiclown self admitted involuntarily that he was operating magnitudes below pressures and temps required for Platinum Sponge endothermic reactions (ie. nothing happened). The only heat lost on the "JMP side" was radiated from these "serpentine" pipes, which are available to see in court filing photos. They look to be around 4 inch pipes. This sizing fits the 4.5 inch narrative presented in docs as well. It is still insufficient to safely support 1MW of flow. Not minding being unable to radiantly waste 1MW of heat, or anything close to it. More like a 20kw. Also, there are no pumps visible in the main flow path, and thus this relies on gravity / cooling flow for return line purposes. This can also be seen in the photos. Hot in the top, cold out the bottom. No pumps visible.

The only way hot fluid is getting in the top is if it is pressurized from the E-Cats. Then energy is "extracted" (Try radiantly wasted) by the big pipes. Apparently Rossiclown also made his pipes too big, as it seems he also insulated them and added strip heaters. Which, given return line information, indicates he wasn't all that efficient with his E-cat water heaters to begin with...

Sooo... if one put a delta-P gage across the E-Cats, and another across the JMP radiator, you would see corresponding pressure changes. E-cats going up, pressure in the supply header, and then pressure dropping across the radiator. If there were no pressure changes, then there were no temperature changes. They go hand in hand in a working cycle. That is what makes it a work cycle. The arguing at LENR Forum is idiotic on this point. The RossiTrolls, and some of the Rossi critics don't get it. If the critics got it, they would slap the Trolls down in a heart-beat.

Dancingfool, thanks for your comments above. And yes, 150mph is still about three times too fast for erosion and noise.

This week, on Thursday, Rossiclown faces the 20 April hearing regarding several issues which do not look good for him. Most important, are the Motions for Summary Judgement and Evidence Spoliation. We may yet see the Rossiclown bolt the country. I look forward to the rulings on Thursday, as I think Rossiclown faces great chance to getting the shit slapped out of him by the court for being a fraud.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

The following thermodynamic (enthalpy) work cycle diagram is provided to help understanding of my above rant. If only the idiots at LENR Forum understood what this tells them, and how it shows Rossi is full of shit...

I dare them to plot Rossiclown's claimed heat cycle on a Mollier diagram using the numbers he has provided.

Image
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

hanelyp
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by hanelyp »

You could have a working steam cycle with peak temperature/pressure at 100C/1Bar. But that requires a lower pressure cold side, and bulky systems relative to the power delivered. So such would not be a practical power plant.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

Exactly part of my point. :D
The numbers posted do not work, and to make it work requires some significant equipment and effort that did not exist.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Post by ladajo »

Rossiclown is facing the "Spoliation" motion today, and in addition sanctions for failing to adequately support discovery by denying delivery of requested information. The Motions for Summary Judgement seem to have been punted to another session.

If IH's Spoliation motion succeeds, Rossiclown is going to be in a very bad place. They have made a strong argument, and he has offered essentially nothing in defense, other than "Rossisaids" with no real proof to back them up. Today could well be the edge of Rossiclown's slippery slope plunge.

We shall see.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

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