LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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zapkitty
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:13 pm

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby zapkitty » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:18 am

hanelyp wrote:Patent law is messed up more than I thought (which was already pretty bad) if a patent can obstruct basic research into a "device".


Just an excuse for BLP to not provide any hydrinos for study :)

JoeP
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby JoeP » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:16 pm

I just liked the dichotomy of:

- hydrinos are one of the natural states of a hydrogen atom
- you cannot investigate these since we have patented them

I'm no expert on patents, but this just seems rather funny to me.

It would be like trying to patent a particular isotope* or an ion or something. Yes, new molecules I think can be patented, such as with drug companies with new medicines, but basic elements in a particular state that he already claims exist freely in the universe? Or, as Mills claims, that dark matter is really hydrinos, then he holds a patent on it and thus research is blocked into dark matter unless it goes through BLP. :) ?

The author of the article might have it wrong. The patents would only cover inventions that supposedly generate hydrinos (whatever mechanical thing that Mills cobbles together that supposedly makes them).

*Edit: a bit of googling after I posted this and I found this interesting article (I did not read the whole thing):
http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi ... alawreview
So, perhaps if isotopes could be successfully patented, them maybe something like hydrinos as a product could be, or at least be argued, if the existence of such a thing could be proven. Ugh.

hanelyp
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby hanelyp » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:53 pm

My impression is you should not be able to patent a subatomic particle. You might be able to patent a method for producing a specific particle.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.

quixote
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby quixote » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:31 pm

There is precedent, though. Gene's are naturally occurring, but patents have been granted on them.

JoeP
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby JoeP » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:41 pm

quixote wrote:There is precedent, though. Gene's are naturally occurring, but patents have been granted on them.


Existing genes or modified? I would think modified.

With medicines, these are new compounds that also do not pre-exist, or at least have not been discovered for a patent.

I guess it gets fuzzy for things like isotopes that do not exist on Earth, or even elements that do not exist on Earth. Anyone even patent Plutonium?

quixote
Posts: 128
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby quixote » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:01 pm

JoeP wrote:Existing genes or modified? I would think modified.

Initially it was existing. Subsequently, the Supreme Court invalidated simple discoveries or isolation of the gene, but left genes that were "manipulated" externally, even if they weren't modified.

DancingFool
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Location: Way up north

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby DancingFool » Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:36 pm

"And because his issued patents claim the hydrino as an invention, BLP asserts that it owns all intellectual property rights involving hydrino research. BLP therefore forbids outside experimentalists from doing even the most basic hydrino research, which could confirm or deny hydrinos, without first signing an IP agreement."

And right there you have the mark of delusion. Patents protect against commercial activity. Attempts to replicate or explore research are simply not protected as Mills claims. If anyone cared enough about Mills' hydrinos to do research, and he tried to sue them, the case would be thrown out of court. Of course, this would cost lawyer money, so nobody is going to push the limits on it. Too bad, really, since I hate to see bullies succeed.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.

Skipjack
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Skipjack » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:22 am

DancingFool wrote:"And because his issued patents claim the hydrino as an invention, BLP asserts that it owns all intellectual property rights involving hydrino research. BLP therefore forbids outside experimentalists from doing even the most basic hydrino research, which could confirm or deny hydrinos, without first signing an IP agreement."

And right there you have the mark of delusion. Patents protect against commercial activity. Attempts to replicate or explore research are simply not protected as Mills claims. If anyone cared enough about Mills' hydrinos to do research, and he tried to sue them, the case would be thrown out of court. Of course, this would cost lawyer money, so nobody is going to push the limits on it. Too bad, really, since I hate to see bullies succeed.

I feel the same way.

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:31 pm

Another black eye for those that believe physics was fixed when they were at school. NASA has published a test of an EM Drive. This of course defies the laws of physics that say it is impossible to get thrust from a closed system.
It appears the test was carried out in a careful and competent way, this time in vacuum but giving the same results of an earlier test in air.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7kgKi ... ktQlU/view

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:41 pm

I wonder what EM Drive has to do with LENR being Real? Oh, NOTHING.

In any event, it has been a while since I have swapped emails with Paul M. I am wondering if he is going to finally hang up his spurs on this one.
He sure does deserve it. And to help clarify for the loons out there: Eagleworks is not NASA. They were contracted by NASA to have a look.

I am glad this paper is on the table now. I think it gives enough to chew on for someone else to make a replication run. Good dialog going in the EM Drive thread on it. In the mean time, I think I will email Paul and tell him congrats.

Hey Parallel! Moo!!
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:16 pm

parallel.. Another black eye for those that believe physics was fixed when they were at school.
Liar ladajo. wonder what EM Drive has to do with LENR being Real?

Liar ladajo. Eagleworks is not NASA.
Wkipedia. The Advanced Propulsion Physics Laboratory at NASA's Johnson Space Center, also known as "Eagleworks",

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:43 pm

Great Source! Very Authoritative!

My understanding from talking to Paul, and I can be wrong (unlike you), is that the work was (is?) contract supported and internally (ie., No Budget Line Item) funded, and that he is not a GS.
I will have to ask him again.

I almost forgot, if you haven't read thisNASA Roadmap, you should. And it also helps you understand where Sonny White & Paul March are fitting into the bigger picture. They are working TA 2.3.7.1 & 2.3.7.2, which coincidentally are not on the Roadmap...

Moo!
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ScottL
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ScottL » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:36 pm

parallel wrote:
parallel.. Another black eye for those that believe physics was fixed when they were at school.
Liar ladajo. wonder what EM Drive has to do with LENR being Real?

Liar ladajo. Eagleworks is not NASA.
Wkipedia. The Advanced Propulsion Physics Laboratory at NASA's Johnson Space Center, also known as "Eagleworks",


EagleWorks isn't NASA though. It's a private lab that is funded and therefore sponsored by NASA. There's a huge difference between being NASA and being sponsored by NASA. If EW were to find private funding and the NASA funding ended, the lab would still exist, but it's tie to NASA wouldn't.

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:53 pm

This is my understanding as well.
It is hard to tell from external documentation.
NASA has a plan which incorporates an itch called TA 2.3.7; how they are actually scratching the itch ie. GS (or Administratively Determined) or Contractors is not fully clear.
I am going with what I understood from talking to Paul: Eagleworks is contracted to NASA to scratch 2.3.7.1 (Warp Drive) & now .2 (EM Drive).
If someone has something more useful than not so useful Wikipedia, fire away.

Moo!
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:20 pm

For those interested in the ongoing case study re: Rossiclown, IH & Co. dropped a thanksgiving surprise for him with a Third Amended Answer and Affirmative Defenses, which includes all attachments (which on first take appear to be the same attachments as provided in the original filing). These have made fun reading, especially the ruling documents from the court. Each one of the rulings to date has been painting Rossiclown inexorably into a painful corner.

One of the things that IH has made clear is that they do not believe the E-Cat has ever made excess heat, and especially at the levels claimed by Rossiclown. There assertions are based in their new (as in they were bamboozled by Rossiclown via Fraud; thus the Counter-Suit), understanding that all his tests were rigged. And also, that tests by 'others' were, as it has turned out, flawed. And, when they got him isolated in N.C., with the 1MW and other constructs, he could not personally demonstrate any excess heat given months of trying, which they assess as being due to being required to be monitored and interact with real engineers and experimental scientists using unflawed calorimetric techniques. This is why they believe he embarked on the Doral adventure, such that he could get the "1MW" plant to an environment that he controlled, and thus make the results whatever he wanted (again), as he had done in Italy based "testing". Based on this, Rossiclown is facing real danger regarding the Counter-Suit. IH has alleged Fraud and Deceptive practices by Rossiclown and his immediate associates. The Counter-Suit is actually two, one against Rossi-Clown & his lawyer/business buddy Henry Johnson, and one against his supporting cast, Third Party persons (Penon, Fabiani, the mysterious Mr. Bass, etc.). It is likely, given a ruling by the Court to Deny the Third Party request for dismissal, that someone is going to roll over on Rossiclown.

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/11135976/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al

It is no wonder that on the Rossiclown Sock Puppet Show (otherwise known as his JONP blog), he has more and more been bringing up "Settlement" via his Sock Puppets.

As I understand, this filing by IH, now provides him a hard mark of two weeks for his next filing. This Third Amendment by IH was in response to Court Directives to clean a few items up. So it may be that this part is done (and it only regards the Answers and Defenses against Rossiclown), and all that is really left is the Court Ruling on Third Party persons combined Motion to Dismiss the Counter-Suit claims against them, (Rossiclown's was already denied by the Court in total), and Rossiclown's official answer, which should be due two weeks from the Denial of Motion to Dismiss the Counter-Suit ruling (Dated 16 Nov, 2016), or Wednesday, next week (Nov. 30th/1 Dec.). If I am wrong, and the clock has started anew, based on the Third Amendment filing by IH, then Rossiclown's answer would be due two weeks from now, or about the 8th of Dec.

Rossiclown's reality is appearing to be in great danger. I am seeing three outs:
1) He seeks a settlement and gives back all the money (plus potentially a making amends penalty) and possibly forced to admit he was a fraud. This option allows him to avoid further court costs, and ultimate risk regarding the Counter-Suit. It also helps cover the asses of his buddies. The real problem with this one is his demonstrated Ego, and the apparent point that he has already spent the bulk of the money on Real Estate purchases in the Miami area.
2) He presses on and claims complete ignorance or lack of competence resulting in him believing in what he was doing. In effect the 'insanity' defense on the Counter-Suit. This will not however address the posed fraudulent activities and falsifications that IH has presented. The outcome here would still probably be give back the $$$. Option two addresses the Counter-Suit, as given the current positioning of the case; half of Rossiclown's complaint counts were Denied and Dismissed by the Court, and that he is trying to argue legal contractual technicalities vice address the heart of issue, Fraud, it is not likely the remaining counts in his suit will play out in his favor.
3) He ditches and flees the U.S., seeking to establish himself elsewhere either to live off what he has amassed from IH, or even try another scam run. At this point, I think it likely he goes dark vice stay visible, unless he really is insane. Where being insane is a point on which the jury is still out in his regard. The most probably indicator of this would be him divesting of his Real Estate buys, unless he really (incorrectly) believes they are legally shielded from the Counter-Suit; which would not surprise me given how clumsy he has been so far in the legal realm.

All in all, this saga is really an interesting story no matter which side of the fence you sit on. It has components of the great fraud stories and human nature that are fascinating. We are all going to learn something from this, no matter the outcome. While I am firmly in the camp which believes Rossiclown has doomed himself finally with ego driven overreach in his scams, I think I will still learn something regarding the extent how much this is true and in what way. I am also man enough to admit that there remains, if bizarre and extremely unlikely, chance that Rossiclown does have something, just without the grandeur he has been claiming (For the record, I am not holding my breath on this perspective).
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)


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