LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Wed May 04, 2016 6:19 pm

This makes me sad. I just wrote up an analysis of generated power and flows, and it timed out on me.
Ok, the synopsis:
1Mwh of heat makes boils about 421gal/hr of water, which in turn creates about 213ft^3 of steam/min (3.6 ft^3/sec).
We have never seen any written, verbal, nor photo/video evidence of this level of energy.

If Rossiclown chose to waste his generated energy to a water mass, he would need about 67,000 gallons, or a pool 8ft high x 20ft wide x 57 ft long to absorb 1Mwh of input for 24 hours if it started at 68F and then raised to 212F (boiling).
Once this tank reached boiling, Rossi would then need to feed it almost 7gal/min of water to keep it full (with feedwater at 212, if at room temp, it doesn't impact the balance any great deal at these levels). This amount of feedwater is equivalent to 3 or 4 household faucets running at full tilt.
We have never seen any written, verbal, nor photo/video evidence of this level of wasting or feedwater supply.

If Rossiclown really wanted to prove his machine, all he needs to do is either boil a known mass of water for a set period, and then weigh the mass difference, and calculate that directly back to heat input using latent heat of vaporization.
Q = m * L
Q = energy
m = mass
L = Latent heat of vaporization (water @ atmospheric is 0.2854 kwh/lb)

or,
Heat a known mass of water, without phase change, from say 68F to 160F, and then again directly calculate back to heat input.

Q = m * C * DeltaT
Q = Energy added
m = mass (lbs)
C = specific heat capacity (water is 0.998Btu/lb/degree F)
DeltaT = change in temp (in this case 100F)
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Wed May 04, 2016 9:51 pm

'The elephant in the room' is 'Where did the 1MW of heat go?'
This applies for every claimed Rossiclown 1MW "test".
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

JoeP
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby JoeP » Wed May 04, 2016 10:35 pm

Exactly it. I see a lot of talk on some other blogs as to how the "customer" must have regulated the production of heat as needed. Which would make sense if they didn't need the full capacity 24x7 to save energy. But the idea of the proof of concept test was to produce the full load for a year. So they would need to throw away excess energy when there was no load on it if there was not a 'round the clock requirement for it. So Rossi in this case needs to vent air or some medium to heat sinks.

That building doesn't look like a 24x7 facility that was consuming that amount of heat energy and converting it into chemical bonds or somesuch to account for it. Someone needs to investigate not only JM products, but the neighboring businesses in the same building.

Honestly, I figured the ideal test for a Rossi 1MW Ecat, if it were to really work, would be to just supply steam heat for multiple buildings at once. I work in an industrial park here all the main buildings obtain heat from a central system in this way.

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Fri May 06, 2016 1:42 pm

From Me356. NB the last paragraph.

My update: I have tested plasma based reactor for longer period of time.. Results are clear.
Unfortunately the power that is under the lid is so strong I will probably not continue in this area.
Reactor is emmiting neutrons a few days after the test!

With lithium COP might be exceptionally higher. Very rough estimate is COP of 10-50.
But I am not skilled enough to be absolutely sure about safety which is reason why I will continue with reactors that are more safe.
Emmissions (RF, electrons and UV) during the test were so strong that my control circuit was absolutely crazy even that it was 3 meters away - it is unusable.

Now I am playing with dangerous things that are clearly working.

I am afraid, but LENR is not safe as it looked initially. You can make a nuclear reactor with all the things you really don't want.
Fortunately it can't get out of control so easily. If power output is limited, you are safe.
But there will be probably always some kind of potentionally harmfull radiation. Fuel and fuel chamber must be very clean from impurities to not get unwanted products.

Now I understand perfectly why Rossi is working on the e-cat so long. You have something that is working, you have a prototypes and you are nearly ready for mass production. Then you will find something amazing, that can increase the excess heat significantly so that previous work is not important anymore. But there are again many difficulties and unknown things that it can take a few years to get a fully working prototype based on the new discoveries, but it is surely worth. You can continue endlessly, because LENR is opening doors of something completely unknown and much more. not just energy conversion. It is possible that in 10 years, everything will be completely different.

ref https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index. ... rs-part-2/

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Fri May 06, 2016 1:57 pm

UPDATE: Me356 has posted some pictures of one of his reactors here: https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index. ... #post18702

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Fri May 06, 2016 2:25 pm

The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Fri May 06, 2016 4:25 pm

Meanwhile, we all wait for Parallel to dig himself out of the three 'He can't prove it" holes he has dug:
parallel. Is that the royal "we" or do you speak for all the trolls?

1.) Rossi has a Doctorate
parallel. In Italy, people with that degree are called doctor.

2.) The ERV report validates Ecat
parallel. The leaked information says so. Proof will have to wait until the report is released.

3.) The court claim is evidence, and it proves the ERV Report validates Ecat
parallel. The court case is evidence. Whether it holds up remains to be seen.

It doesn't sound like you even graduated from elementary school. You understand nothing and endlessly criticize those that are actually trying to do something useful. You won't name anything significant that you yourself have done but fill pages with repetitive troll comments.

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Fri May 06, 2016 5:45 pm

The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Wed May 11, 2016 2:04 am

Looks like Hank Mills is about to jump off the LENR bus. He is fed up with lack of proof from those (Rossiclown included) who claim success but never prove it publically.

I wonder who will be Axil's and Parallel's LENR Champion now? They are dropping like flies these days. All of them finally coming to the conclusion that Rossi is full of shit, and so are probably a number of others who claim to be doing what Rossiclown is doing.

Even Parallel's last post indicated he is now backing up in certainty.
The end appears very near for Rossiclown and all his horseshit. Personally, I hope he ends up in jail again for fraud (again). He has done such a disservice to honest science and folks who are really trying to explore LENR legitimately. It may take a long while for LENR to recover from the damage Rossiclown has done once the dust settles.


Rossi is full of shit.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

DancingFool
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby DancingFool » Thu May 12, 2016 12:54 am

Parallel -

While you don't seem to take this sort of thing well, you really need to take a deep breath and start thinking clearly.

"1.) Rossi has a Doctorate
parallel. In Italy, people with that degree are called doctor."

Not according to Rossi's website, http://andrea-rossi.com/rossi-invention-publication/

"He graduated from the University in 1973 with a patent, a Masters Degree in Philosophy,"

Not a doctorate, a master's. Also note that, according to the same website, he enrolled in University in 1970. Getting a Master's in three years is indeed a pretty good achievement, but getting a doctorate in 3 years (including undergrad work) is simply ludicrous. Also note that the Master's is in Philosophy, not in any science.

If Rossi is not claiming a doctorate, you really ought to stop, too.

"2.) The ERV report validates Ecat
parallel. The leaked information says so. Proof will have to wait until the report is released."

The ERV report has not been released, per your own statement. With no way to verify its content, "leaked information" is hearsay, no more and no less.

"3.) The court claim is evidence, and it proves the ERV Report validates Ecat
parallel. The court case is evidence. Whether it holds up remains to be seen."

Sorry, lawsuit claims are exactly that, and if Rossi wins his case the claims will be upheld. In no case are such claims evidence. Put it this way: giving false testimony or knowingly submitting false evidence in a court case is grounds for charges of perjury. If the claims which you are referencing are found to be false, this will only mean that he has lost the case, not that perjury charges can be filed against him.
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he strafed the lifeboats.

tomclarke
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby tomclarke » Thu May 12, 2016 7:00 pm

Rossi's "independent" tests have been conducted by Levi or Penon.

Levi is obviously not independent, and also has shown proven ability to deliver erroneous test data. A 2011 test he reported on had (according to him) a flowrate from a dosimetric pump 40% higher than the specified maximum. Levi had previously tested and checked the pump. The pump input was from a hose in a bucket and therefore there is no possibility of error due to high ,mains pressure input.
(see ascoli on Mats site animpossibleinvention for details).

Levi recently showed a continued lack of understanding that emissivity is a spectrally-dependent quantity (so that total emissivity is not in general the same as emissivity measeured by an IR camera sensor). He is either incompetent in evaluating critiques of his work - as well as incompetent in thermography - or for some reason is lying. Personally I go for incompetence, but who can tell?

Penon is reesponsible for a revealing "independent" report from 2012. In this report:
(1) He does not specify type of calibration of the voltmeter and ammeter he uses
(2) He states that a power meter gives different results measuring input power than his voltmeter and ammeter
(3) He does not state what is the difference
(4) He states he will use the voltmeter/ammeter measurement, and ignore the power meter.
(5) He is measuring a triode controlled output typically very spiky with therefore difference between true RMA meter power, and average meter power probably around 2.5X
(6) Rossi had previously refused to use true RMS measurement, claiming COP=2.5 from average power measurement and refusing to check with true RMS meters
(7) The voltage and current measurements were made on aknown spiky triode output from a control box.

He comes up with COP=2.5 from this setup. Of course, he could be using a true RMS voltmeter and ammeter...

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Thu May 12, 2016 7:26 pm

And so on...

The IH rebuttal is going to be fun I think.

I am curious though why folks in Rossiworld are hung up on this being a IP fight. The logic is somewhat delusional.

The argument posed by Rossibots:
1.) IH paid Rossiclown $11 million, therefore they believed the IP was valid.
2.) Because IH believed(s) the IP valid, they are trying to steal it from Rossiclown and not pay him the $89 mil.
3.) By not paying the $89 mil, it says that IH is obviously believing the IP is valid, and thus showing that they still believe.
4.) This is all further validated because, if the IP is invalid as IH claims, then the court case will be thrown out, and they are still out the $11 mil.

Why can't these idiots understand this whole thing is simple:
IH took a risk on Rossiclown, and paid him for his IP.
After the fact, IH figured out Rossiclown had nothing. Before they could either say "se la vie" regarding high risk investments and walk away, Rossiclown sued them for the $89 million x 3 in damages. This also precluded IH from (initially) filing their own suit regarding Rossiclown defrauding them of the $11 mil.
All these internet lawyers are popping up and saying IH is screwed based on the above thinking. It is comical.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

JoeP
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby JoeP » Thu May 12, 2016 8:21 pm

Its not quite that simple. Don't forget that this will be a jury trial. If the timeline shows IH soliciting investments throughout their relationship with Rossi, and obtaining such funds, it puts them in a duplicitous light. If that is the case, believe Rossi will walk away with a nice little settlement from this fiasco. IH also trying to obtain more IP at later dates also speaks to their implicit agreement with Rossi that there is something to his tech. Again, I am only going by what info I have seen made public so far. Perhaps IH has some smoking gun; perhaps not.

A scientific study that determines whether the eCat thing works or not mandated by the court I find extremely doubtful. The court and the jury will care more about who believed what and when, and who was acting in good faith or not. Rossi has enough people (like Levi and others) that have backed him in order to sow enough doubt in the minds of those (again, regular citizens in a jury) that question the scientific merits of his machines.

ladajo
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby ladajo » Thu May 12, 2016 8:33 pm

While it is a jury trial, that does not automatically mandate expert v. expert testimonies as some internet lawyers want to drop anchor on.
It can, and often does, include external independent expert testing or analysis as directed by the court. I see this as a high probability in this case.
Also, the judge can override the jury.
I fully expect IH to seek damages to get the $11 mil back, and court fees. Whether they ask for this as part of the current suit in a counter claim, OR they file a counter-suit. Not sure. But this is a massive risk that Rossiclown faces. All that nice Miami Real Estate he bought with IH money may soon become not-Rossi Real Estate. His only protection claim here (pre-planned in my opinion) are the shell companies he set up to do it.
Another reckoning that will come is the state and federal tax side of things. It would not surprise me at all if Rossiclown gets convicted again for tax evasion.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Fri May 13, 2016 1:44 pm

tomclarke,
At least you try to back up your statements with facts, making a pleasant change from the usual trolls here.
"Of course, he could be using a true RMS voltmeter and ammeter..." The problem is you always assume the worst and with certainty.
Tom's Laws.
1. As LENR is impossible any sign of anomalous heat is measurement error.
2. Any academic not disagreeing with Rossi is connected with him and must be ignored.

Obviously the E-Cat results have not yet been confirmed, but the jury is still out. You simply do not know them. It is hard to make an error as large as COP 50 when dealing with megawatts.
I prefer to wait for definite proof instead of jumping to conclusions. There is now sufficient evidence that LENR does exist and the only remaining doubt is just how well it performs. Rossi has no obligation to show the scientific world precise measurements or just how it works, but must demonstrate performance well enough to convince investors. It is not in his business interest to show public results of success as this would simply spur the competition. We should have a much better idea by the end of June, so not long to wait.

(You also support the IPCC model results on AGW. It looks like they have now been falsified.)


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