LENR Is Real

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Giorgio
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Giorgio » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:58 pm

Axil wrote:See:

Research of a Gas Phase under Electrical Explosion of the Titan Foil in Liquid

Leonid Irbekovich Urutskoeva et al.

I remember quite well Urutskoeva experiments in the early 2000. They was picked up by an Italian experimenter, Fabio Cardone that was a researcher to Italy National Center for Research (CNR). He evolved them into an experiment where he was cavitating a solution of thorium and that was supposedly showing an anomalous decay of the thorium itself due to the cavitating action. Both experiments suggested that the anomalous results (extra Hydrogen for Urutskoeva and Thorium decay for Cardone) was due to the action of LENR.

The problem of those experiments is that they never scaled up.

Urutskoeva tried to scale up but the anomalous hydrogen production in % dropped as the total volume of hydrogen produced in the experiment increased (Hint! Hint!).

Cardone likewise was never able to increase the anomalous decay reaction of the Thorium, facing similar problems to Urutskoeva. He was removed from CNR few years later and ended up in an Italian military research center, where he was still unable to scale up his experimental results.

Several researchers pointed out to potential sources of error for both experiments in their original form, but I don't think that they was ever replicated fixing those potential error sources.


Axil wrote:I cite this work as an example of a clear, unambiguous, repeatable, replicated, and accepted test of a method that empirically shows there must be something there that needs a theory to explain the physical result.

Not really, these experiments (as far as I can remember) was never successfully replicated by anyone else except the original authors. And because the original authors also failed to obtain any increase in the anomalous values when they tried to scale up the experiment, it is than highly possible that the anomalous results was indeed coming from one of the sources of error that other scientists indicated. That would be the logic theory that explains the original results.
It is now quite long time I don't hear anything from Urutskoeva and Cardone, probably another two lost souls in the LENR limbo.

Anyhow, there should be plenty of documentation about this on arxiv for the interested one.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

JoeP
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby JoeP » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:49 pm

Axil wrote:See:
http://www.znaturforsch.com/s65a/s65a0573.pdf

Research of a Gas Phase under Electrical Explosion of the Titan Foil in Liquid

Leonid Irbekovich Urutskoeva et al.

Abstract:

Experimental studies of pulsed electric explosion of thin titanium foils in water with discharge power of ∼ 0.2 GW are described. The production of a considerable amount of molecular hydrogen is revealed whose origin can be explained neither by water decomposition nor by known chemical reactions. A nuclear mechanism of occurrence of the observed molecular hydrogen upon electric explosion is hypothesized. Emphasis is laid on some measurements confirming the hypothesis.


I cite this work as an example of a clear, unambiguous, repeatable, replicated, and accepted test of a method that empirically shows there must be something there that needs a theory to explain the physical result.


Just paraphrasing a bit -- from the paper you cited, it appears that the authors are continuing their investigation and also testing for products of their hypothesized model. They also say that more work is needed in the final remarks. In other words, they are looking for more evidence before asking for acceptance of their results. Now I didn't bother to research this paper and see if there have been follow-ups. Once would hope the authors would stick with it in order to gain validation or find errors.

They are clear in this regard and have several disclaimer remarks along these lines..here are couple of quotes...

"... But additional research is needed for a strict
scientific substantiation of such a hypothesis..."

"...It is significant that although our results of relative
hydrogen and deuterium content measurements seem
to be reliable, in our opinion they cannot underlie the
final conclusion concerning the nuclear origin of the
observed hydrogen. The final conclusion will require
additional research..."

So, more power to them. If they discover something real, and work with some other labs to reproduce it, then they can reap the rewards, professionally. Prove this is real, then ask for theory development. Lets not jump the gun, shall we?

Think about the "Neutrinos are moving faster than light" issue that came out a couple years ago, which I think was also mentioned in this thread. It was an exciting story and we had a thread here on TP IIRC. The scientists involved were very committed to investigating the apparent FTL results and attempting to eliminate all errors from the experiment. When they still received what they thought were FTL results after a long, serious effort to eliminate all possible errors of measurement, they asked for help and continued to refine and retest and look for errors before reaching for a rewrite of physics and theory. And, they eventually did find the error. Such as it should go with any seemingly positive LENR/CF results.

OK, time to go make some homemade meatballs and sauce now, bye!

Axil
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Axil » Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:53 pm

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LochakGlowenergyn.pdf

Low-energy nuclear reactions and the leptonic monopole
Georges Lochak*, Leonid Urutskoev**


This experiment shows the production of fission products of uranium as a result of explosions of titanium wire in water.

Why is scale up important as a scientific consideration? The science of LENR should not be concerned with commercialization. Has the double slite quantum experiment been scaled up into of commercial product?

JoeP
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby JoeP » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:57 pm

Axil wrote:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LochakGlowenergyn.pdf

Low-energy nuclear reactions and the leptonic monopole
Georges Lochak*, Leonid Urutskoev**


This experiment shows the production of fission products of uranium as a result of explosions of titanium wire in water.

Why is scale up important as a scientific consideration? The science of LENR should not be concerned with commercialization. Has the double slite quantum experiment been scaled up into of commercial product?


I suspect that scaling it up may resolve potential measurement / contaminant related issues. A larger experiment could smooth the results and reduce the granularity of data. A lot like statistical sampling techniques. Again, as part of the effort to remove experimental errors.

Giorgio
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Giorgio » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:28 am

Axil wrote:Why is scale up important as a scientific consideration? The science of LENR should not be concerned with commercialization. Has the double slite quantum experiment been scaled up into of commercial product?

These type of examples are so stupid that one has to wonder if you actually have any idea about what you are talking about......
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

Axil
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Axil » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:46 am

From the times of Tesla in the 1890s, Cold fusion has been discovered and then forgotten and then later rediscovered in a tragic cycle of frustration and forgetfulness. Tesla may have been the first. There is a persistent urban legend about Nikola Tesla. The prolific Serbian inventor who claimed that his greatest achievement, the achievement that he was most proud of, was not alternating current or the radio, but a high voltage tube which could produce energy and transmute materials. This story has usually been dismissed as nonsense, a product of a demented mind. Now in the light of our emerging LENR experience, this fantastic tale might well have been true after all.

Tesla claimed “nature has stored up in the universe infinite energy" (Columbia College lecture. New York. May 20, 1891). Tesla demonstrated the “carbon button lamp" a spherical gas discharge device in public lectures (London 1892, then at Philadelphia 1893, vs. Patent 4,546.22118911). Those who witnessed this wonder exclaimed “how is he doing that?” Others failed to believe the witness of their own eyes. "There was a stampede in the two upper galleries and they all rushed out. They thought it was some part of the devil's work."

Tesla was only the first of many. There then came Henry Moray, Joe Papp, Janos Jakkel, Edwin Gray, Ken Shoulders...All these men and many more have discovered LENR and let this precious secret pass through their fingers like the grains of sand through an hour glass, as the fleeting days of their lives. Generation after generation the secrets of cold fusion have appeared and been eventually forgotten. Mostly, because these men of invention did not understand cold fusion in the least, but some because of greed and the desire for fame and acclaim, but almost all because they failed to share their knowledge to keep those precious hard won insights alive after these special men were gone.

Cold fusion is more than just the production of energy, this mysterious mechanism entails its miracles too. These processes are not explicable by our current natural or scientific laws. Such events can only be attributed to some unknown science far beyond the mind of man whose understanding would entail insight into the very essence of the universe. These miracles are the production of energy without the associated generation of gamma radiation and radioactive isotopes. And even more perplexing is that this lack of nuclear byproduct are a sometimes thing where when the conditions are just right, the evidence for the nuclear nature of LENR comes plainly through.

LENR can occur in the guts of chickens and on the skins of bacteria. Evolution has shrewdly made use of LENR to keep alive the creatures that nature has invented. Lenr can be applied to radioactive wastes to speed up its rate in varying degrees almost as if LENR holds the key to the control of time itself.

We now see a crack in the perpetual cycle of lost opportunity, a chance for the first time to get LENR to hold fast and become a part of the fabric of civilization. Let us all try to do our part in keeping the truth of LENR alive both now and into our future.

Dr. Nikola Tesla famously said: “Of all the frictional resistance, the one that most retards human movement is ignorance, what Buddha called "the greatest evil in the world." The friction which results from ignorance can be reduced only by the spread of knowledge and the unification of the heterogeneous elements of humanity. No effort could be better spent.”

Giorgio
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Giorgio » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:16 am

Axil wrote:Generation after generation the secrets of cold fusion have appeared and been eventually forgotten. Mostly, because these men of invention did not understand cold fusion in the least, but some because of greed and the desire for fame and acclaim, but almost all because they failed to share their knowledge to keep those precious hard won insights alive after these special men were gone.

Axil wrote:Let us all try to do our part in keeping the truth of LENR alive both now and into our future.


I think you posted this in the wrong place. It's Mr. Rossi that claims to have the Holy Grail of energy, you should address your concerns on his website, not here.
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

Axil
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Axil » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:37 pm

LENR may be showing up in passive autocatalytic recombination (PAR) technology. A COP of 3 is high for LENR. I wonder if these REAL scientists will distroy their careers by pursuing the truth of LENR. Or will they like so many others just forget about it. Meanwhile those here can ridicule and dissimulate the information contained below.




http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.iecr.5b00686

Gas flow-through microcalorimetry has been applied to study the Pd/Al2O3 type catalysts in the exothermic hydrogen recombination process: H2 + O2  H2O, in view of the potential application in the passive autocatalytic recombination (PAR) technology. The flow mode experiments revealed thermokinetic oscillations, i.e., the oscillatory rate of heat evolution accompanying the process and the corresponding oscillations in the differential heat of process, in sync with oscillatory conversion of hydrogen. Mathematical chaos in the rate of heat evolution has been confirmed. In the outburst of quasiperiodic oscillations of large amplitude, the instances of differential heats as high as 700 kJ/mol H2 have been detected, exceeding the heat of water formation (242 kJ/mol H2) by a factor of nearly three. Another occurrence of anomalously high thermal effects has been measured in calorimetric oxygen titration using 0.09 μmol pulses of O2 injected onto hydrogen- or deuterium-saturated catalysts, including 2%Pd/Al2O3, 5%Pd/Al2O3 and 2%PdAu/Al2O3. Repeatedly, the saturation/oxidation cycles showed the heat evolutions in certain individual O2 pulses as high as 1100 kJ/mol O2, i.e., 550 kJ/mol H2, again twice as much as the heat of water formation. It has been pointed out that it seems prudent for the PAR technologists to assume a much larger rate of heat evolution than those calculated on the basis of a standard thermodynamic value of the heat of water formation, in order to account for the possibility of large thermokinetic oscillation occasionally appearing in the recombination process of hydrogen. A possible relation of the anomalous heat evolution to an inadvertent occurrence of low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) phenomena is also briefly considered.

Giorgio
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Giorgio » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:23 am

Axil wrote:Meanwhile those here can ridicule and dissimulate the information contained below.

No need, your attitude is already doing a great job to bring discredit and ridicule to everyone involved in LENR researches.
Keep up the good job!
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:27 pm

Airbus to Host LENR Workshop in October
http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/07/01/ai ... n-october/

I expect the trolls, who think they know better than Airbus (and everybody else,) will try to make fun of the evidence that serious players are working on LENR.
Never mind that the major newspaper Aftenposten writes they have an independent expert's report that Industrial Heat's 1 MW plant is working well.

Stubby
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Stubby » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:48 pm

Appealing to the 'authority of Airbus' doesn't make LENR true.

That only thing anyone has 'demonstrated' about LENR is so-called anomalous heat in very small systems where the errors in measurement might be responsible.

Call me if it scales up.
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

Giorgio
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Giorgio » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:54 pm

parallel wrote:Airbus to Host LENR Workshop in October
http://www.e-catworld.com/2015/07/01/ai ... n-october/

I expect the trolls, who think they know better than Airbus (and everybody else,) will try to make fun of the evidence that serious players are working on LENR.
Never mind that the major newspaper Aftenposten writes they have an independent expert's report that Industrial Heat's 1 MW plant is working well.


"Jean-François Geneste, scientist at Airbus is the conference organizer".
If LENRs really work,” Geneste wrote in his slide presentation, “the world will change dramatically. … We want Airbus to be a major actor in tomorrow’s world.”

Seems like this Airbus guy thinks that IF LENR is real it will change the world. What an amazing intuition!
I am proud to say that I think the same!!!
Sadly, this does not help to make LENR become true nor add anything new or useful.
Not surprisingly, there is also no indication on Airbus news releases of their participation or support for this conference.

By the way, didn't you you say that you was coming back only when you had some REAL news? I really believed that you would keep your word... :roll:
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

parallel
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby parallel » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:06 pm

Airbus hosting a seminar on LENR is real news.
Stubby. It has been scaled up. Several independent reports now that the 1 MW plant is working well.
I understand the troll consensus. None can admit they were wrong until a troll give permission. LOL

I just came back to see if my forecast about the trolls response was right.
Bye troll land.

Giorgio
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby Giorgio » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:15 pm

parallel wrote:Airbus hosting a seminar on LENR is real news.

Real news with NO news source. A typical post from parallel :mrgreen:



parallel wrote:I just came back to see if my forecast about the trolls response was right.
Bye troll land.

Ahahah, shouldn't you be more concerned with your endless mistaken forecasts of the last 5 years regarding Rossi and LERN in general?
Bye parallel, hopefully you will be gone forever this time!
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

JoeP
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Re: LENR Is Real

Postby JoeP » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:40 pm

parallel wrote:Stubby. It has been scaled up. Several independent reports now that the 1 MW plant is working well.


Well, what are you worried about then? Seems everything will work out for you shortly!


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