LENR Is Real

[GIThruster]

Stop beating around the bush. What did you really intend to say? Heh!

[Asterix]

The amazing thing to me is that you have this situation where Rossi claims a device produces heat in excess of the furnished by external electrical (or if you believe the man, gas) energy.

Now think about this for a second.

You have a reactor that needs heat to operate and produces heat in excess of that input. But under no circumstances can it produce its own heat to operate.

Permit me to propose an analogy. There's a guy on the street who says that he can take your $20 bill and turn it into a $50, magically. So he demonstrates by taking a couple of double sawbucks and out come two nice crisp half-C-notes. Would you believe him? Would you empty your wallet of $20 bills and run to the nearest ATM for more?

Most importantly, do you understand the idea of the "long con"?

When this is all ended, no doubt the following old chestnut will be circulated:

"Uno scorpione vuole attraversare un fiume, ma non sa nuotare. Chiede a una rana di traghettarlo. La rana non si fida, ma lo scorpione la rassicura: “se ti pungessi annegherei”. La rana generosamente accetta, ma a metà percorso lo scorpione la colpisce con il suo aculeo velenoso. La rana, disperata e morente, gli chiede “Perché?”. Lo scorpione, prima di morire annegato, risponde “È la mia natura”."

[Axil]

The amazing thing to me is that you have this situation where Rossi claims a device produces heat in excess of the furnished by external electrical (or if you believe the man, gas) energy.

Now think about this for a second.

You have a reactor that needs heat to operate and produces heat in excess of that input. But under no circumstances can it produce its own heat to operate.

Permit me to propose an analogy. There's a guy on the street who says that he can take your $20 bill and turn it into a $50, magically. So he demonstrates by taking a couple of double sawbucks and out come two nice crisp half-C-notes. Would you believe him? Would you empty your wallet of $20 bills and run to the nearest ATM for more?

Most importantly, do you understand the idea of the "long con"?

When this is all ended, no doubt the following old chestnut will be circulated:

"Uno scorpione vuole attraversare un fiume, ma non sa nuotare. Chiede a una rana di traghettarlo. La rana non si fida, ma lo scorpione la rassicura: “se ti pungessi annegherei”. La rana generosamente accetta, ma a metà percorso lo scorpione la colpisce con il suo aculeo velenoso. La rana, disperata e morente, gli chiede “Perché?”. Lo scorpione, prima di morire annegato, risponde “È la mia natura”."

That is how capitalism works. It takes money to make money.

[Asterix]

That is how capitalism works. It takes money to make money.

Only to get things rolling. Apple doesn't need anyone's investment. Your car needs only a tank of petrol and a little push to get it going.

Rossi, on the other hand, is saying that his device never gets rolling--it always needs that electrical (or gas) heat input so it can provide heat.

You'd ask the same thing of the guy with the magic money changer--if he can create $50 bills from $20, why doesn't he collect a few $20 bills and then take the $50 bills that result and exchange them for more $20 bills?

This reminds me of the Nigerian 419 scam--we're holding $30 million for you, but we need $10,000 to pay the brokerage/duty/bribe. Yeah, right.

[ladajo]

Asterix,
Good capture of the Rossiworld Saga. He, as demonstrated in the past has drowned himself by drowning others, and will (is) do so again. You are perfectly correct to point out that it is his nature.

I also like how Axil zooms right over one of the core paradox's of the Rossiscam, "Why can't it run off its own heat?" Been asked a thousand times and never been answered with anything but bullshit.

Rossi is full of shit.

[Axil]

Asterix,
Good capture of the Rossiworld Saga. He, as demonstrated in the past has drowned himself by drowning others, and will (is) do so again. You are perfectly correct to point out that it is his nature.

I also like how Axil zooms right over one of the core paradox's of the Rossiscam, "Why can't it run off its own heat?" Been asked a thousand times and never been answered with anything but bullshit.

Rossi is full of shit.

Like a laser, those microparticles must be pumped. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pumping

Heat is light...infrared light.

When Rossi runs his reactor in self sustain mode, it will get out of control and meat down. You work in the nuclear industry: you must know what supercritical means.

[Asterix]

Like a laser, those microparticles must be pumped. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pumping

Heat is light...infrared light.
.

Axil, you're comparing apples and oranges. I'm very familiar with pumped cavities for microwaves. However, a pumped cavity does not generate energy in excess of that provided as input. Your statement is a non-sequitur.

Further, you, as does Rossi are claiming that the need for energy input is for safety control. But again, why would restricting heat input into something that produces more heat (by a factor of 6 according to Rossi) change the rate at which his supposed reaction proceeds?

Do you not see the problem with this logic?

[Axil]

Like a laser, those microparticles must be pumped. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pumping

Heat is light...infrared light.
.

Axil, you're comparing apples and oranges. I'm very familiar with pumped cavities for microwaves. However, a pumped cavity does not generate energy in excess of that provided as input. Your statement is a non-sequitur.

Further, you, as does Rossi are claiming that the need for energy input is for safety control. But again, why would restricting heat input into something that produces more heat (by a factor of 6 according to Rossi) change the rate at which his supposed reaction proceeds?

Do you not see the problem with this logic?

Let's talk details.

Early on, one of the big issues that Rossi was said to have had to deal with was the control of his reactor. His early reactors were not stable and were prone to melt down.

The Cat and Mouse architecture is an attempt to make his reactor more stable. This two tiered system might use the Mouse as a stabilization and control mechanism to keep the optimum heat range of the Mouse at about 400C. That is achieved by sizing the micro-particles at a resonant black body temperature at 5 microns. When the heat of the reactor exceeds that 400C temperature, the Mouse becomes increasingly inefficient as the Hot-Cat reactor temperature increases toward 1000C where the Cat’s heat range is optimized with a particle size of 2 microns. At 1000C, the mouse is completely detuned and the pumping from the Mouse is minimized or effectively disabled. This dead Mouse puts a damping condition on the Cat so that the Cat’s temperature is mostly limited to something under 1000C.

[Giorgio]

Let's talk details.

That will be quite hard as we do not have any details to talk about. All we have is Rossi words and tales, and if you remove those than is hard even to understand what we are talking about here, let alone talk about "details"....

Wouldn't be more clever to just admit that till date we (nor anyone else) knows anything about the eCat except what Rossi says and that (after all) he might just be another professional scammer?

[ladajo]

"supercritical" does not mean out of control. It simple means that ther eis positive reactivity and neutron count is rising. Ie: you are increasing power.

As for your 'explanantion' on Rossisays, what makes any difference for the source of the "heat"? 2 micorns or 5 micron radiated heat energy makes no difference, something generated it be it the electircal heater of the "glowing" Ecat.

Your plagarism of the Rossiclown and devotees explanation still says nothing.

It gets hot. He uses electricity to heat it to "start up". It then starts and makes more hot. Rossiclown claims he must periodically turn on electric hot to control the reactor hot.
Once the reactor makes its own hot more than the electric hot (if it really worked) then the heat flow is reversed. Now the reactor makes the electrical heaters hotter.
Can you not see the fallacy? Energy in is not lost, it just adds to the pile. And if the reactor can make its own energy for net gain of (energy/heat), then the electric heaters make no more sense. Rossi has always claimed the power is taken by heat. He boils water as the primary claim. The reality is he is using electric heaters to boil water with a metal heat sink to ride the off cycles, and then playing magic mayhem with the monitoring to make it look like he has something.

Smoke and mirrors. Ignore this electrical input as it has no real meaning... classic magician. The trick is directly in front of you, but you are convinced to ignore the obvious by misdirection.

Another question oft overlooked by Rossibots:
Why has Rossi never demo'd a non-electrically heated "Ecat"? He has claimed its exisitence many times, but no-one has ever seen one.

Rossi is full of shit.

[Asterix]

Exactly, Giorgio--all we have is Rossi's statements. That's not convincing proof, since no one has ever reported witnessing a runaway meltdown of a Rossi device. Besides, I thought that Rossi has stated on more than one occasion that the phenomenon is self-limiting, owing to the melting point of (his miraculously enriched) Ni62.

Rossi openly stated both in his patent application and in other places that his catalyzer could not operate without nickel-62--and that he had a process to greatly enrich Ni62 content of the naturally occurring isotopic mix (normally about 3.6%). Has Mr. Rossi ever submitted samples of his enriched nickel for analysis?

In other words, perhaps it isn't the individual statements of Rossi--but when taken as a whole, it's got the smell of a scam. Rossi's advantage is that people tend to forget what he has said.

[Axil]

Let's talk details.

That will be quite hard as we do not have any details to talk about. All we have is Rossi words and tales, and if you remove those than is hard even to understand what we are talking about here, let alone talk about "details"....

Wouldn't be more clever to just admit that till date we (nor anyone else) knows anything about the eCat except what Rossi says and that (after all) he might just be another professional scammer?

A lot has changes since you were in the LENR fray.

Rossi has sold his Intellectual Property to industrial heat. So Rossi's scamming days are over. He has transferred all business and sales decisions to IH and those people are saying nothing. They are also trying to keep Rossi from saying anything also. It is true that Rossi's loose lips are the source of some amount of limited information and some additional info comes from third party testing. But a goodly amount of LENR info are coming from people like Mizuno, Miley and Cravens. When IH comes out with a product or a stock solicitation, then IH may be susceptible to the scam label. But until then, I don't think that a completely black organization can be accused of a scam.

[Giorgio]

A lot has changes since you were in the LENR fray.

Rossi has sold his Intellectual Property to industrial heat. So Rossi's scamming days are over. He has transferred all business and sales decisions to IH and those people are saying nothing.

IH LLC is a DELAWARE company, you should know quite well what that means.
IH LLC was incorporated in 2012 and has NO revenues till date.
IH LLC only act has been to issue 20M US$ of securities (stock/debt) and sold 11,5M US$ of it to god knows who...
IH LLC does not bring any valuable contribution or support to Rossi claims, but could have brought to his pocket lot of cash.

And all of this without a proper test ever being done.

How else can you call this?

[Giorgio]

Another question oft overlooked by Rossibots:
Why has Rossi never demo'd a non-electrically heated "Ecat"? He has claimed its exisitence many times, but no-one has ever seen one.

Rossi's advantage is that people tend to forget what he has said.

Both true and extremely good points.

[tomclarke]

Thanks for pointing this out! The claimed COP is 6 or 10 or whatever, which means that if the reaction was temperature sensitive altering 10% or so of the total power dissipated would not control it.

Whereas... Just turning up or down cooling water flow rate would control it providing more than 50% change in temperature for given power.

The currently tested device seems nicely stable with no control except the input power which we are told is much smaller than the output power.

Except we are not told that - all the measurements done so far on the active device are susceptible to loopback spoofing on the wires going into the e-cat - because current is measured with clamps over large insulated wires all you need is two-core wire inside the insulation with currents going in opposite directions. And suitable sized resistors hidden in the e-cat.

It is clever, and very very simple. It can be de-spoofed by measuring the input current and voltage to the "black box" that supplies the device.

I wonder why in the previous test they did not do that? They measured the mains supply input to the black box only for the passive (control) device... If it is not done in the next test report, due soon, it will be an even clearer indication that at least one of the testers is in cahoot with Rossi.

"supercritical" does not mean out of control. It simple means that ther eis positive reactivity and neutron count is rising. Ie: you are increasing power.

As for your 'explanantion' on Rossisays, what makes any difference for the source of the "heat"? 2 micorns or 5 micron radiated heat energy makes no difference, something generated it be it the electircal heater of the "glowing" Ecat.

Your plagarism of the Rossiclown and devotees explanation still says nothing.

It gets hot. He uses electricity to heat it to "start up". It then starts and makes more hot. Rossiclown claims he must periodically turn on electric hot to control the reactor hot.
Once the reactor makes its own hot more than the electric hot (if it really worked) then the heat flow is reversed. Now the reactor makes the electrical heaters hotter.
Can you not see the fallacy? Energy in is not lost, it just adds to the pile. And if the reactor can make its own energy for net gain of (energy/heat), then the electric heaters make no more sense. Rossi has always claimed the power is taken by heat. He boils water as the primary claim. The reality is he is using electric heaters to boil water with a metal heat sink to ride the off cycles, and then playing magic mayhem with the monitoring to make it look like he has something.

Smoke and mirrors. Ignore this electrical input as it has no real meaning... classic magician. The trick is directly in front of you, but you are convinced to ignore the obvious by misdirection.

Another question oft overlooked by Rossibots:
Why has Rossi never demo'd a non-electrically heated "Ecat"? He has claimed its exisitence many times, but no-one has ever seen one.

Rossi is full of shit.