EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

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Tom Ligon
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby Tom Ligon » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:46 pm

Maybe no neutrons are reported because this was done on the little machine and not WB-8?

Logically, if one were having trouble getting a big machine to behave as expected, drop back to a smaller, non-fusion size, and study just the effect you need to understand, at an affordable scale, before overhauling the big one.

I don't see the term used in a quick once-over, but basically this says they've verified wiffleballs for the first time using proper diagnostics.

Skipjack
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby Skipjack » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:12 pm

This is excellent news! I am going to read through the paper now, to get a better idea of what is happening! Great find! Does that meant hat the Navy has discontinued the project, since the information embargo is over? In that case, will we see more papers released by EMC2?

mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby mvanwink5 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:15 pm

Navy shoestring budget kept the work from going forward on the WB-8. It is a wonder they were able to make the breakthrough. Someone at ONRL needs to have their coffee cup cleaned and put on display for being shortsighted. Anyone with a direct line to Elon M?
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby mvanwink5 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:29 pm

For the purpose of discussion, we estimate the power balance for a 1 meter radius hexahedral D-T Polywell fusion reactor operating at β=1 with a magnetic field of 7 T at the cusp points and an electron beam injection energy at 60 kV.
This calculation is based on two assumptions: 1) the electron loss rate in Equation 1 is correct, and 2) the efficiency of ion acceleration via a potential well can be made good enough to convert 50% of electron beam injection energy into an average ion energy. From Equation 1, the electron loss current is 254 A per cusp for the electron density 2 × 1015 cm−3 and electron energy at 60 keV at the cusp points. Since there are 14 cusps in the hexahedral system, the required electron beam power to maintain a β=1 state would be 213 MW. Separately, this system will lose an additional 51 MW of power via Bremsstrahlung radiation for an average elec- tron temperature of 60 keV, assuming no ions other than hydrogen isotopes are present.[19] In comparison, the expected D-T fusion power output would be 1.9 GW for a D-T cross section of 1.38 barns at a center of mass energy of 30 keV. 

WOW!
First time they have estimated scaling, based on experiment.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

MSimon
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby MSimon » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:32 pm

mvanwink5 wrote:Navy shoestring budget kept the work from going forward on the WB-8. It is a wonder they were able to make the breakthrough. Someone at ONRL needs to have their coffee cup cleaned and put on display for being shortsighted. Anyone with a direct line to Elon M?


As you know - over the years (esp from 2007 to 2010) - I have been contacted by various big money investors about putting money into Polywell. I have notified the most reliable of the group in case Polywell needs funds. We shall see if anything comes of it. And if the Polywell folks are ready to deal.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby mvanwink5 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:40 pm

This spells the death of solar cells and bird mulching wind turbines. Anyone know how to get this for WUWT for a post?
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Giorgio
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby Giorgio » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:43 pm

Finally some data!!! I had to pinch me twice to be sure it was real.
Wiffleball confirmed, sweet result. I really hope that the last two years was indeed spent in getting ready for some REAL test on WB8 or WB8.1.

I will finally take a break from china crazy life and dedicate an hour to something i really like. 8)
A society of dogmas is a dead society.

ltgbrown
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby ltgbrown » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:45 pm

Over 8 years of watching Polywell. This is the most excited I have been! Where I can purchase stock in EMC2?
Famous last words, "Hey, watch this!"

MSimon
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby MSimon » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:47 pm

mvanwink5 wrote:This spells the death of solar cells and bird mulching wind turbines. Anyone know how to get this for WUWT for a post?


Dropped some links at the bottom of this thread:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/04/solar-roadways-biggest-indiegogo-scam-ever/#comment-1655698

Discussion wit Focus Fusion guy: https://www.facebook.com/groups/13773475748/permalink/10152199515545749/

and: http://classicalvalues.com/2014/06/the-latest-on-polywell-fusion/
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Tom Ligon
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby Tom Ligon » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Oh, let's be fair to solar photovoltaics. They'll remain the best way to recharge your i-phone while hiking in the wilderness. And they're still attractive for powering electric fence chargers in remote locations where the Polywell-powered grid does not reach.

Solar will continue to feed us. But Polywell allows us to not waste land and sunlight by covering it up with PV panels.

mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby mvanwink5 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:58 pm

Anyone ever seen the size of a coal fired power plant compared to a 2 meter diameter polywell that puts out 2GW! (albeit not electric output so be sure to compare apples to apples).

Just what the rocket doctor ordered.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Tom Ligon
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby Tom Ligon » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:03 pm


mvanwink5
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby mvanwink5 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:14 pm

EMC2's problem is making it small enough to handle the power out. D-D would also help vs D-T. I wonder what WB-8 output would be and how much power it needs to run the electron guns it needs to get to Beta = 1 ? Probably needed to go to the tiny size due to not having the funds to buy big enough electron guns to power WB-8.
Near term, cheap, dark horse fusion hits the air waves, GF - TED, LM - Announcement. The race is on.

Peter
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby Peter » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:21 pm

I bring up Polywell occasionally and mostly people are pleasantly interested. Every now and then someone says it will never work and sometime they cite the "fundamental flaws" described by Todd Rider. Could these flaws still be a deal breaker, or has the Polywell concept been shown to overcome these flaws?

And for bonus points, have these flaws already been solved by previous prototypes, or is this latest paper the first time we can finally say that Polywell fusion has no such fundamental flaws? Assuming, of course, that the conclusions in this paper are correct.

Skipjack
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Re: EMC2 has published a polywell preprint on arXiv

Postby Skipjack » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:23 pm

So with the values given for the 1m TD- Polywell, do we have an educated guess how big a PB11 Polywell would have to be and how much power in it would need?


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