Forbes - Fusion Crash Program Required

[MSimon]

I cant tell you how or why, but yall's conjectures arent right.

With regards to my comments about simulations, to do simulations right to see the important physics, you need a code that requires a license fee that basically runs about as much as building a polywell.

Well of course there are other considerations. But on a constant amp-turn basis the smaller the Polywell the more the power out. Do the math. It is just BOE engineering stuff.

[paperburn1]

It would seem to me that the size of the well would be a limiting factor. You have to have enough time in the well for fusion to take place.
The power output of a polywell is proportional to R^7 (radius of the magrid to the seventh power). This means there is an optimum radius for the magrid, and that is about 1.5 meters. If you make the radius of the magrid much less than 1.5 meters, the Polywell will not put out enough power to charge its own magrid and power its own coils (it will not reach "break even"). And, if you make the radius much more than 1.5 meters, the power output will exceed the strength of any known materials, and the Polywell will blow itself to bits, every time you power it up. In the graph on the right, if R = 1 m, the power out is 5.8 MW; if R = 2 m, the power out is 749.2 MW.

So the diameter of our "full-scale" Polywell will be about 3 meters (almost 10 feet); and it happens that the power output of a 3 meter Polywell is about 100 MW (100,000,000 watts), which is just about the right size for powering the city of Port Angeles, Washington.

[MSimon]

It would seem to me that the size of the well would be a limiting factor. You have to have enough time in the well for fusion to take place.
The power output of a polywell is proportional to R^7 (radius of the magrid to the seventh power). This means there is an optimum radius for the magrid, and that is about 1.5 meters. If you make the radius of the magrid much less than 1.5 meters, the Polywell will not put out enough power to charge its own magrid and power its own coils (it will not reach "break even"). And, if you make the radius much more than 1.5 meters, the power output will exceed the strength of any known materials, and the Polywell will blow itself to bits, every time you power it up. In the graph on the right, if R = 1 m, the power out is 5.8 MW; if R = 2 m, the power out is 749.2 MW.

So the diameter of our "full-scale" Polywell will be about 3 meters (almost 10 feet); and it happens that the power output of a 3 meter Polywell is about 100 MW (100,000,000 watts), which is just about the right size for powering the city of Port Angeles, Washington.

Are you assuming constant field or constant amp-turns? Those are two different situations.

[Robthebob]

I cant tell you how or why, but yall's conjectures arent right.

With regards to my comments about simulations, to do simulations right to see the important physics, you need a code that requires a license fee that basically runs about as much as building a polywell.

Well of course there are other considerations. But on a constant amp-turn basis the smaller the Polywell the more the power out. Do the math. It is just BOE engineering stuff.

oh sorry, i was talking about the conspiracy talk earlier.

[mvanwink5]

Indeed, used MRI machines at 3T have been surpassed by 5T & 7T machines so are quite cheap. At least the Seimans' design has a row of 6 main coils. And they come with cooling systems.

Did they have a decent price for those 3T coils? Any idea what the bore of the coils was?

[hanelyp]

Power ~ R^7 assumes B ~ R, i.e. Amp-turns ~ R^2 ~ coil casing cross section.

[KitemanSA]

Did they have a decent price for those 3T coils? Any idea what the bore of the coils was?

It has been a while but IIRC, the magnets were ABOUT 1.5m diameter (about 1/2 WB100 size) and I think the unit was about $2M. But I did a bit of searching and could be mixing machines.

[kcdodd]

That sounds about right to me. SC coils are going to be one of the larger parts of a budget for just equipement.

[mvanwink5]

I suspect those prices fall significantly with new model introductions. 1.5m for a 3T field is a lot. With a dodec configuration using 2 MRI machines (12 coils), that would give you 2 spare coils and the WB would be ~3m in diameter.

[mvanwink5]

1.5T MRI machine on ebay for $64k.
The point is the Navy is keeping polywell at the level of a shoestring science project. This is what serious money really looks like...
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4454
If you want to see polywell in your lifetime we'll have to design it and get it funded ourselves. Waiting for the Navy? Look at the ships sitting in port so the Navy can save on operation costs. If you think you can just wait for the next election, Hillary will probably get elected and hang in there until she gets Alzheimers in her second term....

Go ahead, hold your breath , campaign for grass , or put your hopes on Rossi like some here...

[MSimon]

1.5T MRI machine on ebay for $64k.
The point is the Navy is keeping polywell at the level of a shoestring science project. This is what serious money really looks like...
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4454
If you want to see polywell in your lifetime we'll have to design it and get it funded ourselves. Waiting for the Navy? Look at the ships sitting in port so the Navy can save on operation costs. If you think you can just wait for the next election, Hillary will probably get elected and hang in there until she gets Alzheimers in her second term....

Go ahead, hold your breath :oops: , campaign for grass :shock: , or put your hopes on Rossi like some here... :roll:

Ending Prohibition at the Federal Level will save at least $25 bn a year. That turns out to be 125 full scale Polywells A YEAR. Or well over 630 Polywells since Jan 1 2007. Actually over 660 of them at this point in time.

Well I could go on in that vein counting in State and local expenditures. (about another $25 bn each a year) Or go into the compounded costs. But I will stop. In deference to those who think the waste is a good idea.

[mvanwink5]

Yes, Msimon, that is what is holding up serious funding of polywell I wonder if a Rossibot will show (popcorn at the ready)...

[MSimon]

Yes, Msimon, that is what is holding up serious funding of polywell :roll: I wonder if a Rossibot will show (popcorn at the ready)...

Well no. I'm just pointing out one source of funds. With money left over.

[mvanwink5]

Msimon, your myopic subject is a progressivist comorbidity not a cause unto itself. Not being a cause means when you stretch it like a membrane to cover everything (to include the cause) you lose your logic. Your subject is a medical issue, and I mean that (100%) in the scientific sense. It is fundamentally a biologically (pathogen based) chronic disease (and cure) issue. Polywell funding is not.

I'd like to see 20 years of shoestring, science project delay short circuited.

[DeltaV]

I'd like to see 20 years of shoestring, science project delay short circuited.

This can only happen by way of an invasion of earth by a Reptilian armada. Isolated, resourceful gangs of p-11B fusion nerds eventually succeed in developing working Polywells to electrically power assorted flying machines and weapon systems. After the last Reptilian ship is brought down, victorious Resistance members climb on top of the smoking wreckage, raise their weapons skyward and shout in unison, Red Dawn style, "MAMMALS!!!".