SpaceX News

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Tom Ligon
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by Tom Ligon »

JonP wrote:
Tom Ligon wrote:Much as I like to hear that the launch was a success, the purpose of this particular payload is not so clear to me.
Another use is supposed to be a bit of heads up time on incoming Solar weather... not sure how much useful time it can give, but maybe like the earthquake early warning system, it might be worth 15-60min notice on "yes, this incoming wave of particles will be as bad as expected" to be able to shut down sats and power grids, etc...
Yeah, but we've been doing this from L1 for years with SOHO. Great science investment. No doubt it is time we got a replacement up there, but I'm just surprised it is a legacy instrument. All the news coverage on this bird has been on the ability to view the full disk of the sun, which they illustrate with videos anybody can make on Helioviewer.org using images from existing solar observatories.

I suppose, if it is equipped like a smart phone and can simultaneously do Earth selfies, there is some benefit in that. But visible light images would not be where the science is. Any measurements need to be very broadband, and include radiation at very long wavelengths. And if the probe is at L1, that means it is unable to measure radiation back to space at night, which is, after all, the crux of the whole greenhouse issue.

Tom Ligon
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by Tom Ligon »

This probably should be the start of a new thread, and maybe on General. I expect an argument. Actually, this would be to settle one.

I believe we used to have some satellites equipped to measure the optical properties of the atmosphere, although I don't recall the specifics. Those are all expired, I think. They worked with calibrated ground stations to measure attenuation at various wavelengths. In other words, they measured the phenomena behind insolation and re-radiation directly.

I've attempted something like this using my thermal imager. At midnight with a full moon, you take a spot measurement of the lunar surface temperature. The temperature of the lunar surface lunar high noon is pretty well established, and you would not want to walk barefoot on it. The thermal imager never shows anywhere near that hot, because various gasses in the atmosphere absorb IR. Water vapor is the prime culprit, especially in the band the thermal imager uses.

The problem with using theory as a substitute for measurement is that water vapor is the dominant greenhouse gas, and its behavior is complex. So while you might have a theory that predicts what, say, CO2 and methane do, your theory is swamped out by what water vapor REALLY does (clouds do very different things than vapor in air).

The problem with taking direct measurements is that you have two highly polarized sides, one of which says their theory says we're all gonna die, and the other one says we're having no effect. I suspect we're not taking measurements because actual measurements would settle the issue and each side sees that as a serious risk to their pet theory. It would seem to me rather important that we actually do these measurements.

Per my argument above, observations of Earth from L1 may be a useful part of this, but they would miss the vital longwave re-radiation measurements at night. Which sounds to me like more payloads for SpaceX are warranted (just to keep this on topic).

paperburn1
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by paperburn1 »

Staying out of the global warming aspect and controversy.
From my understanding the big advantage of this satellite used for this measurement is it that fact that it takes one complete picture at extremely high resolution. Previous satellites can only take a small area at a less resolution and all the images had to be combined into a mosaic to get quote" the big picture. This technique was prone to a large amount of error. This new satellite is supposed to eliminate almost all of that error.
Although the technology is over 10 years old, it does have the following capabilities
National Institute of Standards and Technology Advanced Radiometer (NISTAR) measures irradiance of the sunlit face of the Earth. This data is to be used to study changes in Earth's radiation budget caused by natural and human activities.[25] The radiometer measures in four channels:

For total radiation in ultraviolet, visible and infrared in range of 0.2-100 µm.
For reflected solar radiation in ultraviolet, visible and near infrared in range of 0.2-4 µm.
For reflected solar radition in infrared in range of 0.7-4 µm.
For calibration purposes in range of 0.3-1 µm.
The Earth Polychromatic Imaging Camera (EPIC) takes images of the sunlit side of Earth for various Earth sciences purposes, in 10 different channels from ultraviolet to near infrared.
At the very least this satellite should provide us with some very interesting data and let's not forget its ability to warn us of oncoming incoming solar weather
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

KitemanSA
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by KitemanSA »

Tom Ligon wrote:This probably should be the start of a new thread, and maybe on General.
Yes please!

Tom Ligon
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by Tom Ligon »

Another good Falcon 9 launch.

This time the rocket carried a two-fer, two satellites which will boost to geosynchronous orbit using xenon electric propulsion systems. Not the first use of these thrusters but apparently a first for use to geosync. But because the rocket carried two payloads, they lacked the excess fuel capacity to try a landing. They'll skip it for the next launch as well, then try again.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015 ... /24251763/

GIThruster
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by GIThruster »

"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Skipjack
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by Skipjack »

Watching politicians, that have NO CLUE whatsoever act as if they do makes me want to puke! Fact is that they are too stupid to have an opinion on this subject. What they should do is ask the experts and then do the frack what these experts say

GIThruster
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by GIThruster »

Skipjack wrote:Watching politicians, that have NO CLUE whatsoever act as if they do makes me want to puke!
The whole point behind a Republic as opposed to a pure Democracy is to have specialists making policy and law. Granted there is a severe lack of technological prowess in congress, the needed thing is to cultivate the tech savvy to politics.

Trouble is, those sorts of people find it easy to secure good jobs, so why would they want to serve in congress?

I have a friend who recently retired from his post as head of the psychiatric section in the CA state prison system. He's a really smart guy with some limited technical prowess. I have been trying to convince him to run for a CA seat, but he's not having any of it. You can see the problem. Those who know, know better than to want to so serve.
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

Skipjack
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by Skipjack »

The sad truth is that most intelligent people with real knowledge in any(!) matter have too much integrity and and are too bad liars to become successful politicians :(
Also most hard working people never make that much money from an honest living that they could make it big in politics.
So we end up with a bunch of unintelligent, lying, bribed, sociopaths that usually get into politics with daddies money.
In an ideal world, politicians would acknowledge that they are nothing but maggots that know nothing and have no skills. They would then go and get a team of experts for a given subject together (real experts mind you). Then listen to what the experts say and then make an informed decision based on that. Unfortunately right now, it is the other way round. They have an opinion which is usually based on what their favorite lobbyist of the day wants, or what they pulled out of their ass or what their marketing asshat told them would be the popular decision to make. Then they go and pester and attack those that know what is right until they got their way, or they just outright ignore them.
And that my dear friends is why we have not made not made it back to the moon in 45 years.

GIThruster
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by GIThruster »

Might need a new certification. Lets hope the Sellout Senators don't have a hand in this:

http://aviationweek.com/space/upgraded- ... tification
"Courage is not just a virtue, but the form of every virtue at the testing point." C. S. Lewis

ScottL
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by ScottL »

That interior crew cabin just makes me all giddy.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacexphotos/16763231836/

hanelyp
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by hanelyp »

GIThruster wrote:Might need a new certification. Lets hope the Sellout Senators don't have a hand in this:

http://aviationweek.com/space/upgraded- ... tification
Did upgrades on ULA rockets need to jump through similar hoops? It makes sense that a major design change should have some review. But commonality with a proven design should make the needed review less than for a new design.
The daylight is uncomfortably bright for eyes so long in the dark.


Tom Ligon
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by Tom Ligon »

Or in other words ...

“There comes a time on every project when you just have to shoot the engineers and start production.”

At least until you hear one of the engineers, still moving, saying "But we can squeeze another 30% of performance out of the engines!"

D Tibbets
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Re: SpaceX News

Post by D Tibbets »

Tom Ligon wrote:....

Per my argument above, observations of Earth from L1 may be a useful part of this, but they would miss the vital longwave re-radiation measurements at night. Which sounds to me like more payloads for SpaceX are warranted (just to keep this on topic).
I wonder if the infrared re radiation back into space from the Earth on the Sun lit side is actually easy to measure. The black body radiation from the Sun is probably very low by the time you get to longer IR wavelengths. This reflected mid infrared light from the Sun would thus be tiny. The mid infrared radiation from the Earths surface and atmosphere that is picked up by the Earth facing satellite camera is due to thermal emission mostly, and not Solar reflection. With appropriate cut off filters, only this light would reach the camera. The IR wavelengths from the temperatures of interest, perhaps ~ -100 to 100 degrees C. Would be common from thermal emission from the Earth. The Sun with a photosphere average temperature of ~ 6000 degrees C and an even hotter corona would not have bell curve remnant of cool ~ 100 degree C gas emitting light.

A bigger issue may be some of the spectral emissions that occur in the IR region. But again it is all a matter of intensity and selection of appropriate cutoff filters. Also, I think these mostly molecular spectral lines is in the near IR and I'm guessing the thermal emissions of interest are at longer wavelengths.

PS: To measure libido[ EDIT-um...make that albedo] the amount of light that is reflected back into space from reflection of Sunlight from the ground, forests, ice, seas, clouds, etc. would require a Sun side satellite, again with a global view. Thus both jobs could be done from a single satellite.

Dan Tibbets
Last edited by D Tibbets on Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
To error is human... and I'm very human.

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