SpaceX News

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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DeltaV
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby DeltaV » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:07 am

The mystery object --
1) flies behind the tower (is not a bug),
2) is metallic, with a rounded top and a darker, angular bottom (is not a bird),
3) moves at high speed.
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SpaceX_Anomaly_AMOS-6_1Sep2016.jpg
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paperburn1
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby paperburn1 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:39 am

Interesting
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Skipjack
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby Skipjack » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:00 am

Be careful when interpreting a heavily compressed video stream! These things are lossy and all sorts of weird artifacts happen.

Giorgio
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby Giorgio » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:10 am

Let SpaceX engineers review the data, and I am sure that they will find the scientific reason for the explosion without the need of invoking sabotage theories. Building Rockets is just darn hard, that's all what there is to say.
Look, stars!

DeltaV
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby DeltaV » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:11 pm

Skipjack wrote:Be careful when interpreting a heavily compressed video stream! These things are lossy and all sorts of weird artifacts happen.

Yes, the artifacts can be weird indeed. In the above, the tower structure looks fairly accurate, which increases confidence that the object is not too far off base.

I suggest that the raw video be enhanced by a variety of people, using their own methods, to see how much variation there is in the results.

Here is a rough summary of what I did (did not record every step):

- Downloaded HD raw video from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BgJEXQkjNQ using Video DownloadHelper.
- Used VLC media player to slow-mo, zoom, tweak gamma, brightness, etc.
- Freeze-framed, then "Print Screen" button and pasted to .bmp file.
- Cropped with Paint then resampled with IrfanView, 200%, best method (Lanczos), maintained aspect ratio.
- Enhanced using GIMP, iterative process, Colors/Curves --> Filters/Enhance/Unsharp Mask (~7/0.7, 5/0.5, 3/0.3, always decreasing, curve tweaks between passes).
- GIMP export to .jpg, quality 89% to fit under 250KB.

Have at it!

Tom Ligon
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby Tom Ligon » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:41 pm

Slick, I think I'm going to like Video DownloadHelper on Firefox.

I've downloaded the clip in HD, and see the object coming in from the right, but it does not hit the launch vehicle, so what could the relationship be? The flash fire starts before the object even gets close.

I never see a frame in which it is behind a tower until well after the explosion. I'm viewing and can do screen captures in Pinnacle Studio, my video editing program.

JoeP
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby JoeP » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:35 pm

Looks like a bird traversing the camera's field in between the lens and the launchpad.
The last frame with the object doesn't appear (to me) to be behind that last tower on the far left of the screen either.

As for conspiracies: using a drone or some small fast aircraft would have likely shown up on radar. So anyone with some kind of nefarious plot against SpaceX would hardly choose that kind of platform. And even if this thing shot something like a bullet into the rocket on a fast flyby, why go so complex and use a detectable platform that is moving fast in 3D in order to fire a projectile? Seems easier to use a stationary 50 cal. sniper rifle hidden somewhere in range. And even that isn't "easy." And anything shot into the rocket will leave plenty of forensic evidence.

Real doubtful anything going on here but a catastrophic malfunction.

Maui
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Location: Madison, WI

Re: SpaceX News

Postby Maui » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:12 am

Delta, u serious? Wow... and the (same?) bug that flew across at 1:09 is a practice run or something?

But if we want to talk conspiracy... wouldn't it be easier to sabotage the GSE than a drone strike?

DeltaV
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby DeltaV » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:47 am

Dude, I just posted a picture and described what it shows and how it was processed. If you think that silvery orb with rectangular understructure, behind the tower, is a bug or bird, then a) tell us what you are smoking, or b) tell us how, when I click this page, I see something different than you see. Better yet, start with the raw image, (non-comedically) enhance it, and show us that it is clearly a bug or bird.

As far as no contact between object and target, there are several possibilities, including, but not limited to, electrolaser, bullet, small grenade launcher, or a well-aimed ball bearing, rock [Edit:] or small, fin-stabilized, tungsten dart. Drone + video link + hobbyist-level kluge. No spooky AI, aliens, or even conspiracy needed, just teens being teens, perhaps. Or, somebody perfected EMdrive or Mach Effect and is practicing for the release of their manifesto.
Last edited by DeltaV on Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Giorgio
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby Giorgio » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:03 am

Again with the laser conspiracy? Seems like you really like this kind of nonsense....
I will not talk about the "object", as Tom and Joe already said all what there is to say, and due to the poor resolution everyone can see what he wants into that frame. Even if it was a Rover (and that is a BIG IF) the chance that it can be a danger (or damage) a rocket of is almost ridiculous.

Like I said, let SpaceX Engineers go through the data and I am sure that they will pinpoint the cause of the explosion, exactly like they did for the last accident (and without the need of conspiracies and rouge ships with MW lasers like someone was hoping.....).
Look, stars!

Tom Ligon
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby Tom Ligon » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:16 pm

I personally like the approach of using a rifle on a UAV for some applications, but I don't see it for this. It is way too complicated for the desired effect. If you wanted to pull this off, you'd put a charge on the UAV. It is not as if this mission needs the thing recovered.

If the unidentified flying object (that's exactly what it is until it is identified, and I'm not identifying it as extraterrestrial) is beyond the towers, it is moving like a bat out of hell, maybe 50 meters a frame. Supersonic? No teen prank. I'd not try to shoot obliquely from it and hit something skinny.

I personally suspect a bug. The rectangular appearance could be an artifact of pixels and compression. It looks compelling but look around it. The whole picture breaks down into rectangular regions. The video processing is trying to make everything rectangular. Also, the object is moving so fast across the field of view that motion blur would be expected to square if off horizontally, hence the flat bottom.

The one point that sticks in my mind is that the satellite was owned by an Israeli company, so the possibility of a disgruntled Palestinian or Iranian element does come to mind.

I believe what the final analysis will be is something like, oops, we forgot to clean that O2 line, or oops, loose fitting, or oops, opened a valve too fast. With pure oxygen, a slight amount contamination is all it takes. Lines must be cleaned and passivated. O2 has been known to ignite metal tubing because a valve was opened fast and caused a shock wave to propagate down it. All this takes is skipping one step in a checklist.

paperburn1
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby paperburn1 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:41 pm

Or in my mind a failure due to a substandard component bought from the lowest bidder. This has been a huge problem in the aviation industry.
Bolt or fasteners marked a grade above what their true rating is has been problematic for years now. Threads that were cut instead of being cold rolled and vice versa. and the list goes on and on.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

Skipjack
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby Skipjack » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:18 pm

I am not saying that this happens(and I hope it never will), but I have been a bit worried about saboutage. Given the high monetary stakes involved, some competitor might place a guy with a long range, armor piercing rifle a couple of miles from the launch pad. The rocket is a huge target, should be easy enough to hit.

Diogenes
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby Diogenes » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:36 pm

Tom Ligon wrote:Slick, I think I'm going to like Video DownloadHelper on Firefox.

I've downloaded the clip in HD, and see the object coming in from the right, but it does not hit the launch vehicle, so what could the relationship be? The flash fire starts before the object even gets close.




Amateurs or photographers using a drone to capture close up footage of the rocket? RF source from drone creating enough excitation to trigger a spark in LOX vapors? (Metal burns just fine in Oxygen) Or worse, triggering one of the explosive charges in the 2nd stage?


I doubt SpaceX has tested rocket fueling with an RF source transmitting a short distance away. Might be some sharp edge or some protrusion sticking out that is resonate at one of the frequencies the drone uses.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Diogenes
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Re: SpaceX News

Postby Diogenes » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:38 pm

JoeP wrote:Looks like a bird traversing the camera's field in between the lens and the launchpad.
The last frame with the object doesn't appear (to me) to be behind that last tower on the far left of the screen either.

As for conspiracies: using a drone or some small fast aircraft would have likely shown up on radar. So anyone with some kind of nefarious plot against SpaceX would hardly choose that kind of platform. And even if this thing shot something like a bullet into the rocket on a fast flyby, why go so complex and use a detectable platform that is moving fast in 3D in order to fire a projectile? Seems easier to use a stationary 50 cal. sniper rifle hidden somewhere in range. And even that isn't "easy." And anything shot into the rocket will leave plenty of forensic evidence.

Real doubtful anything going on here but a catastrophic malfunction.




RF transmission from a drone might have triggered a spark or activated an explosive bolt.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —


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