Polywell In Space? NASA funding?

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:47 pm

http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/08/nasa-f ... ronic.html

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:19 pm

Ten day reply period.
What's the rush?

Aliens!

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:35 pm

NASA/JSC intends to purchase research and development services from the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) for a continuation of an aneutronic fusion research project currently being conducted at the Johnson Space Center.

EPRI has a history with Bussard and Polywell --

EPRI Contract RP8012-16
EPRI TR-103394s

But, they also have a history with LENR research, some of which has gone under the name of "aneutronic fusion".

This could also be related to Slough's FRC or Miley's IEC work. Probably Slough, since it comes so soon after he won a NIAC Phase II contract.

EPRI has pre-existing knowledge and intrinsic insight into the research and development of the existing project for aneutronic fusion power for spacecraft applications.

The Government intends to acquire a commercial item using FAR Part 12.

Whoa.

Stubby · Post by **Stubby** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:04 pm

Ah Rossi's mysterious customer

alexjrgreen · Post by **alexjrgreen** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:43 pm

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/637127main_Tard ... tation.pdf

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:43 pm

Plasma Fusion (Polywell) 0634201N And what exactly does TRL 2-3 entail beside testing a unit
I also find it interesting both of these items are in the same section of the comptrollers report and are sequential line items
Hybrid Electric Drive System Development for Surface Combatants 0634202N
But of course I could be wrong

rj40 · Post by **rj40** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:28 pm

Stubby wrote:Ah Rossi's mysterious customer

Who is Rossi and what is the story about the "mysterious customer?"

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:52 pm

paperburn1 wrote:Plasma Fusion (Polywell) 0634201N And what exactly does TRL 2-3 entail beside testing a unit
I also find it interesting both of these items are in the same section of the comptrollers report and are sequential line items
Hybrid Electric Drive System Development for Surface Combatants 0634202N
But of course I could be wrong

They are not related.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:25 pm

This could also be related to Slough's FRC or Miley's IEC work. Probably Slough, since it comes so soon after he won a NIAC Phase II contract.

I thought that Slough was doing mostly T+D lately... IIRC TriAlpha is trying the FRC approach with aneutronic fuels...

glemieux · Post by **glemieux** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:37 pm

Couldn't find any fusion propulsion research that's been conducted at Johnson. I did find this recent American Nuclear Society conference agenda chaired by John Scott from Johnson with links to familiar aneutronic fusion research (Miley, Chapman, Project Icarus):

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... yR-U0ngQeg

Not familiar with the research by Sedwick at Maryland though. Has John Scott headed up any previous fusion research?

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:02 am

ladajo wrote:
paperburn1 wrote:Plasma Fusion (Polywell) 0634201N And what exactly does TRL 2-3 entail beside testing a unit
I also find it interesting both of these items are in the same section of the comptrollers report and are sequential line items
Hybrid Electric Drive System Development for Surface Combatants 0634202N
But of course I could be wrong
They are not related.

I know but I want them to be so badly

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:37 pm

Give it time.

The navy is pressing ahead with Electric Ship. Sooner or later the power source will catch up.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:11 pm

alexjrgreen wrote:http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/637127main_Tard ... tation.pdf

This is more about reducing the Isp (increasing the thrust) of an aneutronic fusion propulsor than it is about the reactor itself. Seems like Miley's IEC is just being used as a 'pathfinder' source of fast ions. What they are proposing also seems applicable if Polywell, Slough's FRC, or some other aneutronic reactor produces the fast ion beam (or pulses).

The double connection to Houston (U. Houston and NASA JSC) in alexjrgreen's link, combined with JSC being the contracting office for Solicitation Number NNJ12440017Q, probably clinches this as part of the Tarditi/Miley/Scott effort.

Good news. The practical aspects of interfacing an aneutronic fusion reactor to higher-thrust propulsion are being actively studied.

Superficially, Fast-to-Slow Bunch Energy Exchange looks more like Bussard's high-Isp/low-thrust QED-DFP (Quiet Electric Discharge - Diluted Fusion Product) than his low-Isp/high-thrust QED-ARC (Quiet Electric Discharge - All Regeneratively Cooled, relativistic e-beam heating), but the whole point of their approach is to reduce Isp and increase thrust.

Maybe another contender for SSTO propulsion? Isp of 10^4 s is only about one order of magnitude greater than that needed for SSTO, and they are claiming at least a 2 order of magnitude reduction from 10^6 s.

Aero · Post by **Aero** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:03 pm

Now that might work.

Isp = 10,000 seconds gives Ve= 98100 m/s so let the SSTO produce 6 MN of thrust gives a mass flow, mdot = 61.16 kg/s, with engines burning for 600 seconds to reach orbit at 9.2 km/s. I calculate MR = 1.09832 and reaction mass (fuel) expended is about 36.7 tonnes.

So given an SSTO massing 373 tonnes at launch and 340 tonnes at LEO those numbers might work.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:32 pm

ladajo wrote:Give it time.

The navy is pressing ahead with Electric Ship. Sooner or later the power source will catch up.

It pretty much already has. The LM2500 is a fairly reliable and efficient gas turbine as long as it is running at near full capacity. So if they have electric drive, they can run both props at half power with one turbine rather than two turbines at an inefficient 1/2 power each.