Convectron, Dutch fusion!

hanelyp · Post by **hanelyp** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:42 am

One possibility that hit me for the described ball lightning is a retinal after image. Detection by something other than the old mark 1 eyeball would help.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:35 am

I'd like to hear more about this passing-through-glass business.

choff · Post by **choff** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:52 am

I remember one description of ball lightning that said it had much in common with a smoke ring, and the ball shape was caused by a rapid tumbling spin. Basically a lightning bolt would break up and a segment would form a spinning electromagnetic torus.
The other explanation is St. Elmo's fire, a built up isolated electrostatic ball of electrons. A fun story from the praries was the housewife that knocked one down with a flyswatter.

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:43 pm

DeltaV wrote:I'd like to hear more about this passing-through-glass business.

When I was a youngster we had one hit a dish at the company I worked for,we heard a loud bang and the ladys in the front started screaming and we came out of the back to see the phone exchange box dangling from the wall, when we asked what happened they said a ball of lighting went though the equipment rack bounced over to the glass window (4x6 feet) to the office window as it got smaller in the equipment room it grew on the other side of the window into the office. it then rolled along the suspened ceiling to the phone box and the phone box exploded. On the glass window there was a pin sized hole where the ball went from one room to the other and on every joint of the suspended ceiling to the phone box the metal cross members were welded. the phone box was dangling off the wall and clearly fried. Strangly all the equipment that the dish feed went to was unharmed and self restarted as well as no damage to the dish. I wish I had seen this myself but I was in the next room. for the longest time after that the ladys up front got very skiddish during thunderstorms.

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:21 am

Hmmmm.

The abundance of (welding/exploding) power and the pin-sized hole suggest similarities to Dense Plasma Focus.

p + 15N → 12C + 4He + 5.0 MeV ?

paperburn1 · Post by **paperburn1** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:06 pm

DeltaV wrote:Hmmmm.

The abundance of (welding/exploding) power and the pin-sized hole suggest similarities to Dense Plasma Focus.

p + 15N → 12C + 4He + 5.0 MeV ?

The thing that struck me odd was that the dishs , racks and equipment was bonded and properly grounded.(I know that for a fact it was my job) yet the ball went through the dish into the feed the rack and did not leave a mark until it hit the glass and went across the office and out the phone exchange box. There were two distinct bangs, the first outside when the lighting hit and the second about 5 seconds later when we lost the phones. Why it did not dissipate though the grounding system and used the phone is still a mystery to me.

Betruger · Post by **Betruger** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:05 pm

Sounds like pretty useful clues for understanding the nature of it.

Tom Ligon · Post by **Tom Ligon** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:17 pm

Offering no opinion as to the reliability of this journal (which could be a modern embodiment of the Journal of Irreproducible Results), this one discusses eyewitness accounts of, among other things, ball lightning passing thru glass:

http://www.scientificexploration.org/jo ... ivorev.pdf

kcdodd · Post by **kcdodd** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:02 am

I could imagine how something with large internal currents could conceivably pass through a dielectric, acting like a transformer inducing the plasma on both side of the glass. What would be hard to imagine is how any internal structure could be maintained during this process other than some simple current loop, or the sheer amount of internal energy needed to survive for minutes.

luke · Post by **luke** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:49 am

Tom Ligon wrote:Axil,

For Koloc, the key was the observation that ball lightning can pass thru intact glass (something my sisters once witnessed). That ought to be impossible for a plasma. It is very possible for a magnetic field. There must be some accompanying energy capable of ionizing gas on the far side of the glass, though, likely a strong oscillating electric field.

I think there must be moving charges in there, for a number of reasons:
1) If it would be just an EM field it would propagate and dissipate quickly
2) It emits light but not much heat, suggesting ionised gas recombining?
3) If it is a strong field, it will ionize gas.

I also doubt the idea that it is a FRC or spheromak. There are selfcontained but also very regular in a way. I very much doubt if such a macroscopic configuration can be stable in (moist moving) air.

Axil · Post by **Axil** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:08 am

luke wrote:
Tom Ligon wrote:Axil,

For Koloc, the key was the observation that ball lightning can pass thru intact glass (something my sisters once witnessed). That ought to be impossible for a plasma. It is very possible for a magnetic field. There must be some accompanying energy capable of ionizing gas on the far side of the glass, though, likely a strong oscillating electric field.
I think there must be moving charges in there, for a number of reasons:
1) If it would be just an EM field it would propagate and dissipate quickly
2) It emits light but not much heat, suggesting ionised gas recombining?
3) If it is a strong field, it will ionize gas.

I also doubt the idea that it is a FRC or spheromak. There are selfcontained but also very regular in a way. I very much doubt if such a macroscopic configuration can be stable in (moist moving) air.

Rydberg atoms are not a plasma, they are highly excited atoms with an associated large dipole force.

Rydberg atoms form commonly in plasmas due to the recombination of electrons and positive ions; low energy recombination results in fairly stable Rydberg atoms, while recombination of electrons and positive ions with high kinetic energy often form auto-ionizing Rydberg states through the blockade mechanism.

This dipole force could possibly be coherent and the element in the ball is most likely nitrogen because of the orange red colour of the ball.

The ball can pass through glass because the dipole force is electrostatic in nature. Such a force will project through the glass and form Rydberg nitrogen atoms on the other side of the glass through the dipole blockade mechanism.

Highly excited Rydberg atoms will remain coherent for a very long time based on their initial level of excitation.

See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rydberg_matter

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rydberg_atom

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:15 am

Side note - Ball lightning passing through glass seems to have been going on for quite a while:

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:40 am

http://wiki.wunderground.com/index.php/ ... _lightning

A phenomenon very similar to, if not identical with, ball lightning has been reported to occur in submarines due to discharge of a current about 150,000 amp direct current from a 260-volt source across a circuit breaker(Silberg, 1962).

Ahem. MSimon, ladajo, other Navy nukes?

The odor is usually described as sharp and repugnant, resembling ozone, burning sulphur, or nitric oxide.

15N?

DeltaV · Post by **DeltaV** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:54 am

Deleted.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:13 pm

DeltaV wrote:http://wiki.wunderground.com/index.php/ ... _lightning

A phenomenon very similar to, if not identical with, ball lightning has been reported to occur in submarines due to discharge of a current about 150,000 amp direct current from a 260-volt source across a circuit breaker(Silberg, 1962).
Ahem. MSimon, ladajo, other Navy nukes?

The odor is usually described as sharp and repugnant, resembling ozone, burning sulphur, or nitric oxide.
15N?

Surface Skimmer. Sorry.