Since it is MIT, and the public is purportedly "invited to take a look at the device in action", surely such a claim is independently verifiable?At the recent “Atom Unexplored” conference in Torino Italy, Dr. Peter Hagelstein of MIT gave a presentation about some of his work in the field of low energy nuclear reaction research, concentrating on the work of his colleague Dr. Mitchell Swartz. Swartz has invented a palladium-based device he names a NANOR. When an electric current is passed through the palladium, excess energy in the form of heat is produced which, according to Hagelstein, is over 14 times the input energy.
In this talk, Hagelstein says that this NANOR has been running at MIT since January, and it has continued to produce excess heat far beyond anything that could be accounted for by a chemical reaction. Hagelstein says that the public is invited to take a look at the device in action.
Palladium LENR running at MIT since January?
Palladium LENR running at MIT since January?
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/05/hagel ... on-at-mit/
Re: Palladium LENR running at MIT since January?
It would be, were the device carefully analysed and checked. I've tried without success to find a writeup quantifying all the possible error sources: or even detailed enough to let 3rd party do this.marvin57 wrote:http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/05/hagel ... on-at-mit/
Since it is MIT, and the public is purportedly "invited to take a look at the device in action", surely such a claim is independently verifiable?At the recent “Atom Unexplored” conference in Torino Italy, Dr. Peter Hagelstein of MIT gave a presentation about some of his work in the field of low energy nuclear reaction research, concentrating on the work of his colleague Dr. Mitchell Swartz. Swartz has invented a palladium-based device he names a NANOR. When an electric current is passed through the palladium, excess energy in the form of heat is produced which, according to Hagelstein, is over 14 times the input energy.
In this talk, Hagelstein says that this NANOR has been running at MIT since January, and it has continued to produce excess heat far beyond anything that could be accounted for by a chemical reaction. Hagelstein says that the public is invited to take a look at the device in action.
Re: Palladium LENR running at MIT since January?
Yeah. Granted there are complexities involved in this, but you'd think that before anyone would even hint at excess energy they would do everything they could to demonstrate it, beyond any question of measuring errors.tomclarke wrote:
It would be, were the device carefully analysed and checked. I've tried without success to find a writeup quantifying all the possible error sources: or even detailed enough to let 3rd party do this.
Check out my blog-- not just about fusion, but anything that attracts this 40 something historians interest.
Re: Palladium LENR running at MIT since January?
You would think that of LENR. But the motivation of people who chase LENR is not to do everything possible to discover the errors their experiments can have. It is to optimise those experiments for maximum observed power out.cgray45 wrote:Yeah. Granted there are complexities involved in this, but you'd think that before anyone would even hint at excess energy they would do everything they could to demonstrate it, beyond any question of measuring errors.tomclarke wrote:
It would be, were the device carefully analysed and checked. I've tried without success to find a writeup quantifying all the possible error sources: or even detailed enough to let 3rd party do this.
That is understandable, but it means there is no publishable work proving anomalous results.
Actually, it is not very understandable. If I had definite X15 excess heat with total energy out >> chemical possibility the first thing I would do is try really hard to close down any experimental error loopholes. The second would be to publish the results of that effort to catch errors, very carefully, saying "hey look this is anomalous". The third would be to accept a Nobel Prize...
Re: Palladium LENR running at MIT since January?
Exactly.tomclarke wrote:If I had definite X15 excess heat with total energy out >> chemical possibility the first thing I would do is try really hard to close down any experimental error loopholes. The second would be to publish the results of that effort to catch errors, very carefully, saying "hey look this is anomalous". The third would be to accept a Nobel Prize...
So if this project is real, and it is indeed the efforts of Doctors at MIT, why isn't there any such publication?
What is going on here? Is there such a machine, is it built by Doctors at MIT, and has it indeed been producing x14 excess heat energy continuously since January? Or not?
Since we are talking about MIT, these questions should be possible to answer.
The NANOR was developed by Mitchell Swartz, who owns the company JET Energy, Inc. Swartz was invited by Hagelstein to demonstrate his device during the latter's short course on cold fusion during the winter break. As far as I am aware, Dr. Swartz is not currently on the faculty of MIT or any other institution of higher learning. Dr. Hagelstein is an associate professor of electrical engineering at MIT. Has the NANOR been continuously producing an energy gain of 14 times since January? Well, that's the claim. If the device is still operating, I'm guessing it can be found in Hagelstein's lab.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.
I suspect the claim is continuous excess heat, 14X for some short period. But there is a lack of hard information.Ivy Matt wrote:The NANOR was developed by Mitchell Swartz, who owns the company JET Energy, Inc. Swartz was invited by Hagelstein to demonstrate his device during the latter's short course on cold fusion during the winter break. As far as I am aware, Dr. Swartz is not currently on the faculty of MIT or any other institution of higher learning. Dr. Hagelstein is an associate professor of electrical engineering at MIT. Has the NANOR been continuously producing an energy gain of 14 times since January? Well, that's the claim. If the device is still operating, I'm guessing it can be found in Hagelstein's lab.
When somone claims a miracle, but then does not bother to document it properly, I don't think it is likely to be a miracle. Especially when they have every incentive to document the miracle as fully as possible.
Tom
All right, I looked into it, and it seems the claim, as Infinite Energy reports it, is an energy gain of 14.12 over several hours. There is also a claim, apparently by Swartz, that the NANOR experiment has run continuously for at least several months, with excess energy.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.
Thats what I thought. The continuous excess energy claim depends on correct calibration of the calorimeter - but that can never be known with their setup since the initial high temperature phase (which could be chemical) can change conditions.Ivy Matt wrote:All right, I looked into it, and it seems the claim, as Infinite Energy reports it, is an energy gain of 14.12 over several hours. There is also a claim, apparently by Swartz, that the NANOR experiment has run continuously for at least several months, with excess energy.
The 14 hour excess comes up as > chemical but that depends on a whole load of assumptions (the active mass is very small) which would need careful scrutiny. I guess they break. Given the hypothesis of some new weird physics with no good mechanism, or a bit of mundane experimental error, I would go for the latter.
But if this thing really works they can tighten up the calorimetry so that the continuous bit has low enough error bars, then get unambiuous must be greater than chemical results.