hanelyp wrote:Someone is, as usual, having a problem with comprehension.
Thermalization at low average energy (where collision cross section happens to be larger) is countering thermalization at high average energy. The ions are cycling between regions of high and low kinetic energy. One more effect where the electric potential well is vital to the polywell.
I like "as usual"
Countering to more thermalization? Some share to thermalization from low cross section collisions but high coherent component and some share from high cross section collisions but low coherent component. Not countering but adding. And due to intense mass transfer uniform temperature in all space occupied by plasma.
And this all in case if: "The ions are cycling between regions of high and low kinetic energy" – the desired Polywell principle works. As more likely that "better heating by external injection" means conventional heating and not oscillations of ions around negative well located in center.
Two things:
1) The heating is the electrons, not the ions (at least, not directly).
2) Ions and electrons both cycle between regions of high and low kinetic energy. This isn't the desired principle of the Polywell, it is the observed behavior.
And from everything I've ever heard or learned about the scientific method, observation trumps theory every time.
hanelyp wrote:Someone is, as usual, having a problem with comprehension.
Thermalization at low average energy (where collision cross section happens to be larger) is countering thermalization at high average energy. The ions are cycling between regions of high and low kinetic energy. One more effect where the electric potential well is vital to the polywell.
I like "as usual"
Countering to more thermalization? Some share to thermalization from low cross section collisions but high coherent component and some share from high cross section collisions but low coherent component. Not countering but adding. And due to intense mass transfer uniform temperature in all space occupied by plasma.
And this all in case if: "The ions are cycling between regions of high and low kinetic energy" – the desired Polywell principle works. As more likely that "better heating by external injection" means conventional heating and not oscillations of ions around negative well located in center.
Two things:
1) The heating is the electrons, not the ions (at least, not directly).
2) Ions and electrons both cycle between regions of high and low kinetic energy. This isn't the desired principle of the Polywell, it is the observed behavior.
And from everything I've ever heard or learned about the scientific method, observation trumps theory every time.
polywell issues with injectors are clearly just that, problems injecting electrons. Not some new heat source. skepticism is good, but it should be rational. what we get from the latest contract is that there is as yet no scientific no-no. Which does not mean it will work at high beta, but is encouraging.
krenshala wrote:Two things:
1) The heating is the electrons, not the ions (at least, not directly).
2) Ions and electrons both cycle between regions of high and low kinetic energy. This isn't the desired principle of the Polywell, it is the observed behavior.
And from everything I've ever heard or learned about the scientific method, observation trumps theory every time.
1. Read more about other fusion approaches. You would wonder as for example in Z-pinch as well in many others first electron population is heated transfering then some of heat to ions. Electrons' temperature in all such devices is higher than ions'. But going to equalization.
2. And I have not seen hard data about "observed behavior". At least "better heating" does not mean that.
Then read the refernces you have been supplied elsewhere Joseph.
For the umpteenth time:
Polywell is Electrodynamic Confinement. (Say it slowly).
1) A Polyhedral Magnet configuraton confines electrons into a focused spherical construct.
2) This concentration of electrons in space creates a large negative charge well.
3) Ions are introduced to the volume.
4) The ions are accelerated to the volumetric center of electron cloud seeking the large negative charge.
5) Ions run into other Ions coming the other way(s) with sufficient energy to fuse.
6) Ions that do not find other Ions to run into and fuse with travel out the other side of the charge cloud, and then reverse and fall back in, oscillating until they either escape or fuse. While winging around the volume, ions do collide with other ions and transfer energy. They also collide with electrons and create neutral gas. This neutral gas it further collided with creating electrons and high energy ions. and round and round we go.
7) Fusion is achieved.
Read the references Joseph.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
ladajo wrote:Then read the refernces you have been supplied elsewhere Joseph.
For the umpteenth time:
Polywell is Electrodynamic Confinement. (Say it slowly).
1) A Polyhedral Magnet configuraton confines electrons into a focused spherical construct.
2) This concentration of electrons in space creates a large negative charge well.
3) Ions are introduced to the volume.
4) The ions are accelerated to the volumetric center of electron cloud seeking the large negative charge.
5) Ions run into other Ions coming the other way(s) with sufficient energy to fuse.
6) Ions that do not find other Ions to run into and fuse with travel out the other side of the charge cloud, and then reverse and fall back in, oscillating until they either escape or fuse. While winging around the volume, ions do collide with other ions and transfer energy. They also collide with electrons and create neutral gas. This neutral gas it further collided with creating electrons and high energy ions. and round and round we go.
7) Fusion is achieved.
Read the references Joseph.
If not to speak anything else only one phrase "improvement of electronic guns for better heating of plasma" disproves everything written by you. At least, everything written by you is questionable and not proved as e.g. Mr. krenshala states. 1.5 mW of fusion power achieved by WB-6 is not evidence that Polywell works as desired. As thermal devices also produce some fusion neutrons too. And some of them are much powerful.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
Which references?
Some theoretical points were proved with some anomalous.
Not references? What was proved and what is anomalous (so, was not)?
ladajo wrote:4) The ions are accelerated to the volumetric center of electron cloud seeking the large negative charge.
I understand that you are well aware with some missiles homing systems.
seeking the large negative charge.
But:
There is not hard evidence of existence of "compact and large negative charge".
And even existence of "compact and large negative charge" corresponds to true, we have a clear example that asteroids and planet do not seek "compact and large mass" but being attracted move in gravitational field with some curvilinear trajectory and do not move radially. So, do not seek the Sun like Stinger or Sidewinder missiles seek sorce of heat radiation.
Please. My face can not take much more of dropping itself into my open palms.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
just release the fish back into the sea. im sure he didnt read or maybe he did, but he certainly dont understand the J&A doc, it actually explains why bigger electron guns will better "heat" the plasma. It's not through your normal particle population collisional interaction, but by being able to get the machine to high beta condition with high B fields, which apparently is a bit difficult.
At high beta condition, this thing called wiffleball effect (which even tho no publications of data exist for this effect, and I'm not sure why Sydney doesnt just make a better machine, whatever tho) happens; I remember when dr. nebel said that without the wiffleball effect, machine doesnt work. The fact that they didnt give up years and years ago, suggests that this actually does happen; the fact that when dr nebel and others came out and said, through their experiments, it seems like everything checks out. It's pretty lame that we still cant definitely state that it happens, but whatever. When this effect happens, the performance of the machine greatly increases, which is what allows this machine to even be feasible. The increase heating is actually due to the increase in performance of the machine, not due to shooting electrons into the system to collide with the ions or electrons to make them go faster in order for the ions to fuse.
But oh wait, Joe's always right, what am I thinking, I must be wrong.
If you read the clips in the other thread that I took from Bussard's IAC paper (again), it talks about all this as well. As it also provides direct statements from Dr. Bussard that Wiffleball does occur, and Beta is 1 by definition of Wiffleball. Unfortunately, this is a reference, and we have well established that Joseph does not read references, unless they are his father's old text books.
This is also discussed elsewhere by Nebel and Bussard. One other reference that comes to mind is the WB6 report, that some of us have read.
Joseph does not want to see that the e- confinement is in great measure separate from the ion attraction. He really does not get the point of calling the machine "Electrodynamic" vice "Electrostatic".
I have been advised by several folks to ignore him as a Troll. I am still wrestling with this, as I think he has a bright mind, and is very capable with great potential to help further collective understanding. It would seem to be a personality issue that is the stumbling block.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
Robthebob wrote:I remember when dr. nebel said that without the wiffleball effect, machine doesnt work.
So, at last you recognize too that without wiffleball effect the Polywell doesn't work.
Now please provide the link proving that wiffleball is viable.
No such link.
ladajo wrote:He really does not get the point of calling the machine "Electrodynamic" vice "Electrostatic".
Does calling matter?
Robthebob has busted your beautiful house of cards "ions seek for a negative and large charge" having told that according to doctor Nebel without a wafeball effect Polywell doesn't work.
ladajo wrote:He really does not get the point of calling the machine "Electrodynamic" vice "Electrostatic".
Does calling matter?
Robthebob has busted your beautiful house of cards "ions seek for a negative and large charge" having told that according to doctor Nebel without a wafeball effect Polywell doesn't work.
You intentionally ignore the fact that the wifleball formation has been verified, yes?
Wiffleball is proven. It has been stated and explained by the project leads.
Beta=1 has been achieved. I buy what they have written and said.
I will no longer cite and link for you. I have done it enough times. You patently ignore them. Go back, go to other threads find them and read. Then comment on what you read. Stop peeing in the dark. Turn on the light.
You are very tedious and boring on this. I fully recognise you have a good mind. I also fully recognise you are not using it very well. I am really almost out of patience, which for me is unusual.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
ladajo wrote: I have been advised by several folks to ignore him as a Troll. I am still wrestling with this, as I think he has a bright mind, and is very capable with great potential to help further collective understanding. It would seem to be a personality issue that is the stumbling block.
But L, this is the very definition of a troll. If he were a TOTAL idiot, no-one would respond. He plays on your hopes of valued communication to frustrate you.
Save your face.
Last edited by KitemanSA on Fri May 11, 2012 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
