Experiments Show Gravity Is Not an Emergent Phenomenon

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Skipjack
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Postby Skipjack » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:45 am


Tom Ligon
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Postby Tom Ligon » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:09 am

tomclarke,

I'll definitely buy in that time as a dimension is a creation of human minds, and that our notion of spacetime is a distortion of the derivation of the idea.

The first thing Einstein told us about time is that it is a local phenomenon. By process of reasoning that is more than a little circular, time aboard a moving object relative to a stationary reference is measured by using light beams parallel to the path of the moving object. With a bit of work that gives us time passing slower on the moving object. Well, yeah, but then how does that then say if you can plot time versus distance, that you have somehow fiddled with a dimension of time? People can work the math and convince themselves that FTL travel would make them go back in time, while the most rudimentary examination of the problem says that while "time" might go backwards (or more appropriately, sideways) on the moving object, it just marches on back at the stationary observer, and when the object gets back to the origin it will have moved forward in the stationary observer's frame.

What actually exists macroscopically is not time, but change. Clocks measure change. Change comes from all the little things down to quantum mechanics that add up to what we call time marching on. So yes, time is emergent from what really happens. It is not a dimension, not a vector, it is a scalar. One way only. And I've seen a quantum view of time that supports this notion, probably from Dr. Cramer.

And my motto is Heinlein's famous "Specialization is for insects."

Betruger
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Postby Betruger » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:29 am


tomclarke
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Postby tomclarke » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:22 am


happyjack27
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Postby happyjack27 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:38 am


LCARS_24
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Postby LCARS_24 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:00 pm


djolds1
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Postby djolds1 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:40 pm

Vae Victis

djolds1
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Postby djolds1 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:45 pm

Vae Victis

Tom Ligon
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Postby Tom Ligon » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:19 pm

djolds1,

Solipsism: I drink, therefore I am. No, wait, that's Monte Python's version, not Descartes. Not sure I follow. I tend to be an empiricist who tends to believe his senses, and has a lot of trouble abandoning horse-sense for the abstract ... hardly solipsism. And I accept a one-way arrow of time, as opposed to freedom to move either way as implied by a dimension of time.

I was actually pretty pleased with myself when one day Dr. Bussard leaned back in his chair and said something very similar about time, validating my view. In what appeared to be a conceptual ephipany for him, as a physicist, he said that time is what we measure with clocks. He was so used to thinking of it as a dimension, he had stopped thinking of it in the terms a clockmaker uses. To a clockmaker, there is nothing profound at all about this statement. To a physicist, it reduces time from some universal dimension in spacetime back to a useful measurement made with a gadget that operates on physical change.

I have some quibbles with the Laws of Thermodynamics, as well, but not with the notion that things tend to run down ... entropy increases. If time has any arrow, it is that it is all downhill from here. Time can't go uphill. Even the poets understand "water under the bridge."

"Downhill" ... that implies gravity. Some of our clocks use pendulums. Some use gravity to trickle sand or water thru an orifice. We tell time using orbits. Until we designed electronic and atomic clocks, one might have suggested time is emergent from gravity!

You can reverse change locally. You cannot wind the Universe back to an earlier setting. Time is local. This is not to say that the phenomena underlying the operation of our clocks are not universal, but time as a dimension comparable to distance is a human concept that needs to be used with care.

The quibble with thermodynamics is the oxymoron that things tend to a state of increased disorder. True enough for gas molecules, but this "law" was arrived at by intelligent beings that arose from the primoidial slime via self-ordering of chemicals over 4 billion years or so, on a layered planet that condensed from disordered gas, in a fairly well-ordered solar system orbiting a fairly well-ordered galaxy. If the lowest energy state requires order, then order will arise. But, barring energy input to buck the trend, you can generally expect things to run down. The interesting thing here is that gravity tends to impose order.
Last edited by Tom Ligon on Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

EricF
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Postby EricF » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:14 pm


Torulf2
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Postby Torulf2 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:10 am


djolds1
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Postby djolds1 » Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:43 am

Vae Victis

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Postby choff » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:15 pm

CHoff

TallDave
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Postby TallDave » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:22 pm

n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

happyjack27
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Postby happyjack27 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:37 pm



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