ICC 2011

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Joseph Chikva
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Post by Joseph Chikva »

Giorgio wrote:The discussion was much more complex than what you are trying to describe with your post. Anyhow, this really is not important as I am not anymore willing to feed these discussions until you will show that you are ready to put some effort in understanding one's position.
I need not to put any effort for understanding for example in Focus Fusion device if we have the potential difference 45kV, copper ions produced as result of anode's erosion and bombarding cathode’s parts or other nearby parts, will have 45 keV or 90 keV or 135 keV (less probable) ...
Looking at this very simple device complexity you was disagreed with me claiming that I can not apply even Newton's Laws correctly.

Here in this thread you have assumed that for Polywell it would be interesting to use quadrupole magnets widely used in the accelerating technics for so-called "strong focusing". On my very logical question: "How are you going to use axially symmetric magnets in spherical device?" you have accused me in mixing of terms and again misunderstanding of very basic things.

Actually, I can make some efforts to teach you something that I know absolutely for free. Naturally, in case of your interest. And no interest - no study.
But the person for whom months are required to understand how works the pinch, can not accuse me in misunderstanding of elementary things.
Last edited by Joseph Chikva on Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

Joseph Chikva wrote:I need not to put any effort for understanding for example that if in Focus Fusion device we have potential difference 45kV copper ions produced as result of anode's erosion and bombarding cathode’s parts or other nearby parts will have 45 keV or 90 keV or 135 keV (less probable) ...
Looking at this very simple device complexity you was disagreed with me claiming that I can not apply even Newton's Laws correctly.
I have to say that now that I have decided not to get anymore stressed by your attitude reading the way you twist a subject to adapt it to your personal understanding is also quite funny.
Think what you like Joseph, I am not caring about your opinion anymore. :roll:
Joseph Chikva wrote:Here in this thread you have assumed that it would be interesting to use quadrupole magnets widely used in the accelerating technics for so-called "strong focusing" in the Polywell. On my question: "How are you going to use axially symmetric magnets in spherical device?" you have accused me in mixing of terms and again misunderstanding of very basic things.
:roll:

Joseph Chikva wrote:Actually, I can make some efforts to teach you something that I know absolutely for free. Naturally, in case of your interest. And no interest - no study.
:roll:
Joseph Chikva wrote:But the person for whom months are required to understand how works the pinch, can not accuse me in misunderstanding of elementary things.

:roll:

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

Giorgio wrote:I have to say that now that I have decided not to get anymore stressed by your attitude reading the way you twist a subject to adapt it to your personal understanding is also quite funny.
Think what you like Joseph, I am not caring about your opinion anymore. :roll:
Thank you for discussion.

krenshala
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Location: Austin, TX, NorAm, Sol III

Post by krenshala »

I know I shouldn't ... but I just can't resist testing to see what the results will be. Please forgive me, Giorgio. ;)

Joseph Chikva wrote:Here in this thread you have assumed that for Polywell it would be interesting to use quadrupole magnets widely used in the accelerating technics for so-called "strong focusing".
Actually, Joseph, that is NOT what he stated. I'll quote the third post of this thread for you:
Giorgio wrote:I like the part of the instability control with the applied quadrupole fields.
This is something that is interesting also for the Polywell concept.
How do you get that he thinks it would be interesting to use quadrupole magnets in a Polywell, when what he actually stated was that he felt the instability control with the applied fields was "... interesting also for the Polywell concept"?
Joseph wrote:On my very logical question: "How are you going to use axially symmetric magnets in spherical device?" you have accused me in mixing of terms and again misunderstanding of very basic things.
But you did mix up basic things. You are asking someone to justify something that YOU added to the discussion, not something that other person brought up.
Joseph wrote:Actually, I can make some efforts to teach you something that I know absolutely for free. Naturally, in case of your interest. And no interest - no study.
But the person for whom months are required to understand how works the pinch, can not accuse me in misunderstanding of elementary things.
If you can't even follow a simple discussion about someone elses concepts, do we dare trust the applicability of anything you teach? Mind you, I say nothing about your actual skills ... for all I know you are an eminent professional in your chosen career. From what I see on this forum, however, you have a large problem with basic communication which means getting your point across, and accurately describing (teaching) is difficult for you.

Joseph Chikva
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Post by Joseph Chikva »

krenshala wrote: []
Thanks, but quadrupole magnets are useless for Polywell and I have no idea how their concept would be interesting for Polywell. As Georgio said that intersting. When I asked Georgio to explain, he has started accusing me in all mortal sins but only not answering.
Thanks for discussion.

krenshala
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:20 pm
Location: Austin, TX, NorAm, Sol III

Post by krenshala »

Joseph Chikva wrote:
krenshala wrote: []
Thanks, but quadrupole magnets are useless for Polywell and I have no idea how their concept would be interesting for Polywell. As Georgio said that intersting. When I asked Georgio to explain, he has started accusing me in all mortal sins but only not answering.
Thanks for discussion.
Yup, that confirms it. You don't read anything but a few key words in a reply and run with whatever you assume they mean.

D Tibbets
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Post by D Tibbets »

D Tibbets wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote:
Giorgio wrote: To understand the logical reasoning that took me to say that this could be interesting for the Polywell you should need before to understand how the polywell is supposed to work. Unfortunately you already stated that you are not interested in reading nor in understanding the basics of the Polywell, so, why should I waste my time replying to your questions?
If you need something to fulfill your ego take a mirror and talk to it.
I have put you the logic question regardless to my ego. Because it is impossible to use axially symmetric magnet in spherical device. Simply device will not be spherical after that.
Also it is not too pleasant to my ego to learn that I know how Polywell should work better than you. Because that is not difficult at all.

A quadrapole is fundamental to the polywell .

[EDIT- um, or not. I incorrectly made the jump from opposing magnets to quadrapole arrangements ]

,though I believe that this is actually a 2 dimensional concept. A three dimensional arrangemet would be called a _____ pole ?
Opposing symetrical magnets is a key part of the Polywell. Whether these magnets need to be exactly symetrical in geometry has been argued here. I'm uncertain. some of EMC's designs seem to suggest that this may not be absolute. An example would be having a magnet coil that is triangular in shape. On one side it is aranged as pyrimid with a brod base on the bottom, on the opposite the triangular magnet may be inverted so that an apex points down.

In any case, none of this will create a spherical or even a 2D circular magnetic field between magnets. That would only be possible with a monopole. This is why terms like quasi spherical, near spherical, sphere with spikes, etc are used.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

Joseph Chikva
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Post by Joseph Chikva »

krenshala wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote:
krenshala wrote: []
Thanks, but quadrupole magnets are useless for Polywell and I have no idea how their concept would be interesting for Polywell. As Georgio said that intersting. When I asked Georgio to explain, he has started accusing me in all mortal sins but only not answering.
Thanks for discussion.
Yup, that confirms it. You don't read anything but a few key words in a reply and run with whatever you assume they mean.
Thank you. I do not see what confirms what.
The usage of quadrupole magnets impossible conceptually and constructively as “externally applied fields” in Polywell should have spherical and not axial symmetry. And that oppositely allocated magnets in spherical topology are already exist in Polywell.

Or you like the phrase: "instabilities control"? Please, then make the specific proposal. As I do not see anything else except that to impose the closed volume with magnetic mirrors. Has not been already done?
"To control" of one type of instability- namely "two-stream instability" you should not inject electrons into background plasma. If you will do that (not to inject electrons) in result that device will not be Polywell.

There are some papers in which stated "to control" instability caused by ion-plasma injecting by externally applied longitudinal field. This trick expands the so called "stability area". But I never have read the similar with electron-plasma. As stability area in electrons injecting case would be much narrower.
And also and again: how we can apply longitudinal into spherical geometry?

Joseph Chikva
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Post by Joseph Chikva »

D Tibbets wrote:A quadrapole is fundamental to the polywell .
Sense of quadrupole is strong focusing of particle streams.
Sense of oppositely allocated magnets in Polywell is not focusing but thise are cusps.
Concept of cusp is differs from"strong focusing"concept.
In its cubic shape Polywell has not four but has six oppositelly allocated magnets. Why you do not call that magnet system "sextupole"? Why "quadrupole"?

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

Joseph Chikva wrote:Or you like the phrase: "instabilities control"?
I like to think that making you understand is going to be good for my Karma, so I will give it another try.

Imagine that there is an article about instability control of laminar airflow on wing profiles and that I say that the results of this article could be useful also for cars.
What do you understand from the above sentence?

1) That I want to connect wings to a car, or
2) That the results could be used to improve laminar airflow over a car.

It should be trivial now to understand the meaning of my original post.

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Post by Joseph Chikva »

Giorgio wrote:I like to think that making you understand is going to be good for my Karma, so I will give it another try.

Imagine that there is an article about instability control of laminar airflow on wing profiles and that I say that the results of this article could be useful also for cars.
What do you understand from the above sentence?

1) That I want to connect wings to a car, or
2) That the results could be used to improve laminar airflow over a car.

It should be trivial now to understand the meaning of my original post.
Not bad example confirming my statement.
Airplane and car both move in one dimension.
And in the curvilinear space connected with a wing profile it is possible to consider the air stream flowing round wing covered surface as one-dimensional too.
Improving the stability of particles with the help of strong-focusing quadrupole mag field also it is possible only in case if their coherent motion direction will be coaxial to quadrupole magnet's axis.
And in what direction particles move in Polywell?
Not in all directions?
Next question:
Whether wing’s aerodynamic quality depends on angle of attack? Or no?
How wing will work if aircraft’s velocity’s vector will be directed e.g. orthogonally to wing? Or from rear? Or from the side?

Giorgio
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Post by Giorgio »

You are again missing the point......
I am not asking a lecture about wings aerodynamic. I have a PPL and I think I know that quite well.
I am asking what do you understand of the statement I made.
Option 1 or option 2?

Joseph Chikva
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Post by Joseph Chikva »

Giorgio wrote:You are again missing the point......
I am not asking a lecture about wings aerodynamic. I have a PPL and I think I know that quite well.
I am asking what do you understand of the statement I made.
Option 1 or option 2?
What is PPL?
What statement did you make?
As I know all modern car frames are calculated aerodynamically. Also on some sport cars the wings (anti-wings) are installed
But for aerodynamic (like quadrupole's strong focusing) is considered only one-dimensional motion. Unlike Polywell in which motion is not one-dimensional. That's all.

D Tibbets
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Post by D Tibbets »

Joseph Chikva wrote:
Giorgio wrote:You are again missing the point......
I am not asking a lecture about wings aerodynamic. I have a PPL and I think I know that quite well.
I am asking what do you understand of the statement I made.
Option 1 or option 2?
What is PPL?
What statement did you make?
As I know all modern car frames are calculated aerodynamically. Also on some sport cars the wings (anti-wings) are installed
But for aerodynamic (like quadrupole's strong focusing) is considered only one-dimensional motion. Unlike Polywell in which motion is not one-dimensional. That's all.
From a mostly ignorant perspective, I would not think a quadrapole magnet would aid primary confinement. Properly applied outside the magrid though it might better focus the electron beams so that the potential well will approach more closely to 100% (instead of 70-90%) of the drive energy. This may or may not be a good thing. It depends on how it would effect recirculation of up scattered electrons. Having that ~ 20% buffer between the potential well depth and the recirculating drive voltage allow for recirculation of mildly up scattered electrons at initial conditions. Without that buffer, any up scattered electrons would be lost, and actual electron losses might be significantly greater.

Dan Tibbets
To error is human... and I'm very human.

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

Joseph Chikva wrote:
Giorgio wrote:You are again missing the point......
I am not asking a lecture about wings aerodynamic. I have a PPL and I think I know that quite well.
I am asking what do you understand of the statement I made.
Option 1 or option 2?
What is PPL?
What statement did you make?
As I know all modern car frames are calculated aerodynamically. Also on some sport cars the wings (anti-wings) are installed
But for aerodynamic (like quadrupole's strong focusing) is considered only one-dimensional motion. Unlike Polywell in which motion is not one-dimensional. That's all.
Gahhh!

Joseph,
Giorgio is saying that he never wanted to put wings on the car. He is saying that the laminar instabilities research could be useful to making cars better. It is what he was saying originally about the quadrapoles. He never meant they could be put on a polywell, he did mean that the knowledge improvement in magnetics and plasmas could be useful for bettering polywells. No wings on the car...just applying research lessons from one lane to another.

Gahhh!

PPL is "Private Pilot's License". Giorgio is a certified aircraft pilot.

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