10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:17 am

Skipjack wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
Skipjack wrote:Hehehe, more Rossiisms...
Christmas is now on December 16th... Brilliant!
Boy you are REALLY stretching to find anything bad about Rossi! First he says effectively "surely by Christmas". At least three hours later he says effectively "I just heard that it will be by the 16th". And you equate these two statements in your pea sized brain that Rossi must think Christmas is on the 16th. It's no wonder that I find most of what you write to be idiocy. It is because IT IS!!!
It was a joke! Left your sense of humor at home today, eh?

Great recovery, you almost sound believable.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:19 am

It is taking longer and longer to interact with this tread. Maybe we need to start a NEW new thread.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:22 am

Great recovery, you almost sound believable.

Yeah, right?

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:11 am

Skipjack wrote:http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/fo ... -baselines

Independent Celani replication experiment claims to see excess energy. This is nowhere near the levels that Rossi claimed and they themselves admit that there is still room for error. It is still worth mentioning and I think it should be taken seriously. They have an open source- community based approach. So anybody can give feedback on what they are doing, critics included.
Certainly interesting.

Iteresting?
I've just skimmed that now.
So:
First

The amount of energy is AT LEAST 5 WATTS. We have reason to believe it may be more.

Second

According to this baseline, we are getting 64.9 Watts (64.9 - 48.0 = 16.9 Watts excess).

Third

We also look forward to more design suggestions for how to do the experiment in better ways. Similarly, if anyone else is interested in trying the experiment for themselves or at their institutions, let us know.

Is he a serious researcher?
As I am noting you and others one possible way how excess heat can come from - metal hydride formulation chemical reaction.
Also, 16.9/48.0=35.2% while Rossi claims in his "5kW demo/experiment" excess heat 4800W vs. about 200W input power. So, 2400%.

sdg · Post by **sdg** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:10 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
sdg wrote:
This is an old con trick. Tell people what you can and let them fill in the blanks so they hear what they want.
I just had an aha moment. You see, Kiteman was right. The problem all along with thinking that Rossi is a scam artist is that our brains are pea-sized, and unable to understand his parallel universe.

This explains everything!
You claiming a pea brain too? I was only talking about ol' skipjack, but if you want some o that, it's ok by me.

Compared to your breathtaking leaps of objectivity, and your penetrating intellect, unparalleled by any of us here (except, ironically, by parallel), who are we but pea-brains?

We're destined to simplistically reason that Rossi's repeated contradictory statements, dodgy deceptive self-promotion, history of illegal activity, persistent refusal to present or even consider a controlled or verifiable experiment, and comical incompetence mean that he is wholly incapable of achieving what he claims to have achieved.

But thankfully, we've got you and parallel's superior objectivity and insight, giving hope that we may some day overcome our pathological skepticism.

It's the beauty of blogs.

Keep up the good work!

sdg · Post by **sdg** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:10 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
sdg wrote:
This is an old con trick. Tell people what you can and let them fill in the blanks so they hear what they want.
I just had an aha moment. You see, Kiteman was right. The problem all along with thinking that Rossi is a scam artist is that our brains are pea-sized, and unable to understand his parallel universe.

This explains everything!
You claiming a pea brain too? I was only talking about ol' skipjack, but if you want some o that, it's ok by me.

Compared to your breathtaking leaps of objectivity, and your penetrating intellect, unparalleled by any of us here, (except, ironically, by parallel), who are we but pea-brains?

We're destined to simplistically reason that Rossi's repeated contradictory statements, dodgy deceptive self-promotion, history of illegal activity, persistent refusal to present or even consider a controlled or verifiable experiment, and comical incompetence mean that he is wholly incapable of achieving what he claims to have achieved.

But thankfully, we've got you and parallel's superior objectivity and insight, giving hope that we may some day overcome our pathological skepticism.

It's the beauty of blogs.

Keep up the good work!

stefanbanev · Post by **stefanbanev** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:49 pm

sdg wrote: ....
Compared to your breathtaking leaps of objectivity, and your penetrating intellect, unparalleled by any of us here, (except, ironically, by parallel), who are we but pea-brains?

We're destined to simplistically reason that Rossi's repeated contradictory statements, dodgy deceptive self-promotion, history of illegal activity, persistent refusal to present or even consider a controlled or verifiable experiment, and comical incompetence mean that he is wholly incapable of achieving what he claims to have achieved.

But thankfully, we've got you and parallel's superior objectivity and insight, giving hope that we may some day overcome our pathological skepticism.
....

A pea-brain is apparently an overkill; the trie may do a better job ;o)
consider it as a complement...

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:53 pm

sdg wrote:We're destined to simplistically reason that Rossi's repeated contradictory statements, dodgy deceptive self-promotion, history of illegal activity, persistent refusal to present or even consider a controlled or verifiable experiment, and comical incompetence mean that he is wholly incapable of achieving what he claims to have achieved.

Bravo.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:56 pm

Skipjack wrote:http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/fo ... -baselines

Independent Celani replication experiment claims to see excess energy. This is nowhere near the levels that Rossi claimed and they themselves admit that there is still room for error. It is still worth mentioning and I think it should be taken seriously. They have an open source- community based approach. So anybody can give feedback on what they are doing, critics included.
Certainly interesting.

I've just found this link: http://www.1-act.com/pdf/mhhst.pdf

Metal hydrides are the binary combination of hydrogen and a metal or metal alloy. Metal hydrides have been used in many
industrial applications such as battery electrode material, hydrogen storage medium and heat pump system [Park et al., 2005;
Kang et al., 1996; Fateev et al., 1996; Lloyd et al., 1998; Kim et al., 1998a, 1998b; Houston and Sanrock, 1980]. The hydriding
(exothermic) ......

Certainly it is more interesting. At least for me.

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:24 pm

A thread devoid of Rossi perhaps. The verdict was read on him quite a few pages back in my deluge of links, however; I believe the jury is still out on LENR and LENR would be the far better topic to discuss.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:31 am

Not trying to deny the possibility of metal hydrides forming, but the metal wire they are using is very, very thin and small and the experiment is running for a long time. You can go and check out their experimental setup and post your own comments and suggestions there. There are A LOT of people involved with this experiment, which aims to repeat Celani's experiment, not Rossi's. Just to make this clear.
Anyway, if you think that you can add to their experiment and provide them with ways to exclude chemical reactions, please for the name of god, contact them or simply post a comment to one of their blog posts.

Joseph Chikva wrote:
Skipjack wrote:http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/fo ... -baselines

Independent Celani replication experiment claims to see excess energy. This is nowhere near the levels that Rossi claimed and they themselves admit that there is still room for error. It is still worth mentioning and I think it should be taken seriously. They have an open source- community based approach. So anybody can give feedback on what they are doing, critics included.
Certainly interesting.
I've just found this link: http://www.1-act.com/pdf/mhhst.pdf
Metal hydrides are the binary combination of hydrogen and a metal or metal alloy. Metal hydrides have been used in many
industrial applications such as battery electrode material, hydrogen storage medium and heat pump system [Park et al., 2005;
Kang et al., 1996; Fateev et al., 1996; Lloyd et al., 1998; Kim et al., 1998a, 1998b; Houston and Sanrock, 1980]. The hydriding
(exothermic) ......
Certainly it is more interesting. At least for me.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:39 am

sdg Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:10 pm,

Yes. The beauty if blogs.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:26 am

Skipjack wrote:Not trying to deny the possibility of metal hydrides forming, but the metal wire they are using is very, very thin and small and the experiment is running for a long time. You can go and check out their experimental setup and post your own comments and suggestions there. There are A LOT of people involved with this experiment, which aims to repeat Celani's experiment, not Rossi's. Just to make this clear.
Anyway, if you think that you can add to their experiment and provide them with ways to exclude chemical reactions, please for the name of god, contact them or simply post a comment to one of their blog posts.

• Nobody can deny the possibility of metal hydrides forming. As that reaction is well known.
• What is "very, very thin and small" and what is "long time"? If we talk about scientific experiments and not scummy Rossi's demos where are numbers? Because, as a proof of occurrence of nuclear reaction can come only as result of comparison of energy released from chemical reaction with real energy output. And I could not find such comparison.
• "Many people involved" is not an argument. I would quote here the words of Mr. sdg: “comic incompetence”.
• For what I should contact them? For teaching them very simple things that they should know before starting their "experiment"? Let's they learn those things themselves.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:08 pm

Joseph Chikva wrote:
Skipjack wrote:Not trying to deny the possibility of metal hydrides forming, but the metal wire they are using is very, very thin and small and the experiment is running for a long time. You can go and check out their experimental setup and post your own comments and suggestions there. There are A LOT of people involved with this experiment, which aims to repeat Celani's experiment, not Rossi's. Just to make this clear.
Anyway, if you think that you can add to their experiment and provide them with ways to exclude chemical reactions, please for the name of god, contact them or simply post a comment to one of their blog posts.
• Nobody can deny the possibility of metal hydrides forming. As that reaction is well known.
• What is "very, very thin and small" and what is "long time"? If we talk about scientific experiments and not scummy Rossi's demos where are numbers? Because, as a proof of occurrence of nuclear reaction can come only as result of comparison of energy released from chemical reaction with real energy output. And I could not find such comparison.
• "Many people involved" is not an argument. I would quote here the words of Mr. sdg: “comic incompetence”.
• For what I should contact them? For teaching them very simple things that they should know before starting their "experiment"? Let's they learn those things themselves.

Dont be so lazy!
It is all in the blog and on their website. They are live streaming a whole bunch of values too. You can check the graphs where it says Live Stream (the stream seems to be off now. I guess they shut the experiment down).
You can go back though and check. It seems that the experiment ran from the 12th to the 15th. That is 3 days.
As I said, I am not ruling out epxerimental error or a chemical reaction and neither are the people running the experiment.

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:56 pm

Skipjack wrote:Dont be so lazy!
It is all in the blog and on their website. They are live streaming a whole bunch of values too. You can check the graphs where it says Live Stream (the stream seems to be off now. I guess they shut the experiment down).
You can go back though and check. It seems that the experiment ran from the 12th to the 15th. That is 3 days.
As I said, I am not ruling out epxerimental error or a chemical reaction and neither are the people running the experiment.

Thank you. Because I do not believe in LENR, it is less interesting for me. May be I am wrong, but very likely that I am right. As absence of even mention of metal hydriding chemical reaction causes me to think so.
So, they have all opportunities to achieve success independently.