10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[Giorgio]

I am currently pondering whether excitons (surface or otherwise) can be condensed into a massive quasi particle (super-fliud?) that can pick up a proton and guide it into a Ni nucleus.

I am concerned with ANY neutron explanation per-se... but a guided (screened?) proton seems plausible.

Superfluid at high temperatures is not a real possibility IMHO.

Given the "IMHO", this may be a useless question, but can you point to a solid physical reason for that opinion?

We have discussed this before. A Super-fluid or a quasi particle state all require one fundamental step. Coherence.
You cannot have coherence in an heated matrix and at least till now nothing even near to this has even been observed.

[Crawdaddy]

Suppose an amateur wanted to replicate an E-Cat, and attempted to prepare Ni powder. What is a cheap way to do this and remove or convert the oxide?

You would need a high vacuum pump, like a turbo pump, or liquid nitrogen trapped diffusion pump.

I figure it would cost you about 10k to amass the requisite materials and apparatus to start experimenting.

Although apparently there is some dude claiming he has achieved a good result using lithium aluminum hydride as a source of hydrogen and as a means of reducing nickel... or something like that.

Bear with me on this (I'm a software engineer, not a chemist or a physicist) But I'm interested in the subject matter.

So...

I guess that the amateur LENR enthusiast will need to somehow grind nickel in the regular atmosphere. This will cause an oxide layer on all particles. This powder is then loaded in a vacuum chamber, and a turbo pump is used (and perhaps a cryopump afterwards). The powder is then heated or somehow energized to cause the oxygen to disassociate from the Ni. Then perhaps an inert gas like argon is pumped into the chamber, and the powder is quickly stored and sealed in a container.

Something like that?

You need to heat it under high pressure hydrogen, then pump it out, then heat it under hydrogen again, repeating the cycle over a few days in order to see an effect according the ahern report.

This guy is doing something even simpler using hydrides.

http://www.buildecat.com/blogcat/7/chan-method/

If you don't have experience with chemistry/mechanical engineering building your own e-cat might be too dangerous for you in my opinion.

[Giorgio]

{then a miracle occurs}

Eheh, ok, this leaves me without arguments to oppose to you

[MSimon]

You need to heat it under high pressure hydrogen, then pump it out, then heat it under hydrogen again, repeating the cycle over a few days in order to see an effect according the ahern report.

This guy is doing something even simpler using hydrides.

http://www.buildecat.com/blogcat/7/chan-method/

If you don't have experience with chemistry/mechanical engineering building your own e-cat might be too dangerous for you in my opinion.

Chan says in #1

A Wavetek RFG is attached to the coil.

Cute. But those typically put out in the mw range. No mention of an amplifier to drive the coil. I wonder why he didn't mention the model number?

The whole field reminds me of feeding pigs. Throw in lots of slop. Clean up lots of pig sh**. Get a little weight gain. If the market is right you turn a profit.

[MSimon]

BTW Crawdaddy,

Imagine a factory full of these potentially explosive devices.

Some one should ask Rossi what he knows about Intrinsically Safe Control and Instrumentation since he is dealing with Hydrogen Gas. Ask him to what ujoule level his control system is designed to. Ought to be good for a laugh.

[KitemanSA]

Superfluid at high temperatures is not a real possibility IMHO.

Given the "IMHO", this may be a useless question, but can you point to a solid physical reason for that opinion?

We have discussed this before. A Super-fluid or a quasi particle state all require one fundamental step. Coherence.

Do you know the equation for a BEC? The critical temperature is inversely related to the mass of the constituent particles and proportional to the 2/3 power of their count density. When I plugged values for an exciton into the equation the Tc came out pretty darn high, between ~100K and 50000K depending on my assumptions. My primary unknown is the mass of a "hole".
Best WAG approximation ~500K.

Of course I may be totally miss using the equation, but I got pretty consistent numbers with other documents. For instance, the Tc of a deuterium condensate with a density of ~1/Ni atom in a lattice comes out at ~5K, near where Kim published his value.

Cooper pairs would have a very high Tc except they are not bound very strongly at all. They break apart and stop being bosons at a very low tempoerature. Excitons however are know to exist at room temperatures and higher, if I read that article correctly. Thus an Exciton BEC seems plausible to similar temperatures. I know, it is a stretch, but plausible till I find out more.

So, a superfluid of He nuclei which are bosons with mass 4Dalton (a.k.a. amu) ~2K. Superfluid of same particle density with mass ~ 1/1823Da gives 1823*4*2K =~ 14600K. WOW!

You cannot have coherence in an heated matrix and at least till now nothing even near to this has even been observed.

I beg to differ. A BEC is a coherance of bosonic particles. Photons are bosonic particles. A laser is a coherance of photons. A laser is in effect a BEC of photons. Lasers occur at MASSIVELY high temperatures.

Your experience base seems to be limited to BECs of disperse, massive particles. The K2 posits a BEC of densely packed very light particles. The Tc should go WAY up accordingly. ICBW.

[KitemanSA]

{then a miracle occurs}

Eheh, ok, this leaves me without arguments to oppose to you

I thought you might enjoy that!

[Giorgio]

Do you know the equation for a BEC? The critical temperature is inversely related to the mass of the constituent particles and proportional to the 2/3 power of their count density. When I plugged values for an exciton into the equation the Tc came out pretty darn high, between ~100K and 50000K depending on my assumptions. My primary unknown is the mass of a "hole".
Best WAG approximation ~500K.

Of course I may be totally miss using the equation, but I got pretty consistent numbers with other documents. For instance, the Tc of a deuterium condensate with a density of ~1/Ni atom in a lattice comes out at ~5K, near where Kim published his value.

You are using the equation, but you are missing a fundamental point. It's only a math model and it has not been found working outside very low Tc and outside the very specific limit boundaries from which it was derived.
Specifically you need to have thermal equilibrium at ground state of NON interacting particles for the formation of a BEC.
With these conditions you can use that math model, but you still do have to keep in mind that any math model is quite useless if you do not have physical evidences to support your math.

Cooper pairs would have a very high Tc except they are not bound very strongly at all. They break apart and stop being bosons at a very low tempoerature. Excitons however are know to exist at room temperatures and higher, if I read that article correctly. Thus an Exciton BEC seems plausible to similar temperatures. I know, it is a stretch, but plausible till I find out more.

Excitons BEC are an hot topic, unfortunately I do not know enough yet on the argument, but I do remember that experiments were involving Exciton that was optically generated on semiconductors with carefully crafted nano-structures on them to trap the electron.
Also maximum Tc of 30 to 50K was reported.
But anyhow we are light years away from anything that Rossi is doing.

You cannot have coherence in an heated matrix and at least till now nothing even near to this has even been observed.

I beg to differ. A BEC is a coherance of bosonic particles. Photons are bosonic particles. A laser is a coherance of photons. A laser is in effect a BEC of photons. Lasers occur at MASSIVELY high temperatures.

I differ too, laser are not BEC of photons.

[rcain]

So Kite, why does it have to be some sort of BEC in your K2 Konjecture; whats wrong with SPP's (surface plasmon polaritons), as in the Widom Larson Theory?

[KitemanSA]

Do you know the equation for a BEC? The critical temperature is inversely related to the mass of the constituent particles and proportional to the 2/3 power of their count density. When I plugged values for an exciton into the equation the Tc came out pretty darn high, between ~100K and 50000K depending on my assumptions. My primary unknown is the mass of a "hole".
Best WAG approximation ~500K.

Of course I may be totally miss using the equation, but I got pretty consistent numbers with other documents. For instance, the Tc of a deuterium condensate with a density of ~1/Ni atom in a lattice comes out at ~5K, near where Kim published his value.

You are using the equation, but you are missing a fundamental point. It's only a math model and it has not been found working outside very low Tc and outside the very specific limit boundaries from which it was derived.
Specifically you need to have thermal equilibrium at ground state of NON interacting particles for the formation of a BEC.
With these conditions you can use that math model, but you still do have to keep in mind that any math model is quite useless if you do not have physical evidences to support your math.

Absolutely, which is one reason why this is still a konjecture. The math works out. There is a CLAIMED system consistent with its existance, but there is no direct observational evidence.

I am NOT claiming this IS, just that it COULD be. After all, lack of evidence of existance is NOT equal to evidence of lack of existance.

Cooper pairs would have a very high Tc except they are not bound very strongly at all. They break apart and stop being bosons at a very low tempoerature. Excitons however are know to exist at room temperatures and higher, if I read that article correctly. Thus an Exciton BEC seems plausible to similar temperatures. I know, it is a stretch, but plausible till I find out more.

Excitons BEC are an hot topic, unfortunately I do not know enough yet on the argument, but I do remember that experiments were involving Exciton that was optically generated on semiconductors with carefully crafted nano-structures on them to trap the electron.
Also maximum Tc of 30 to 50K was reported.
But anyhow we are light years away from anything that Rossi is doing.

Well, the things you mention are controlled scientific experiments. I KNOW that meso-american indians were dropping large stones onto mammoths to good effect WELL before Galileo dropped those balls from the tower of Pisa. Art vs. Science, ya know.

You cannot have coherence in an heated matrix and at least till now nothing even near to this has even been observed.

I beg to differ. A BEC is a coherance of bosonic particles. Photons are bosonic particles. A laser is a coherance of photons. A laser is in effect a BEC of photons. Lasers occur at MASSIVELY high temperatures.

I differ too, laser are not BEC of photons.

So we have a difference of definition here. Seems to meet all the characteristics of a BEC. If it Looks like a BEC and Shakes like a BEC...

[KitemanSA]

So Kite, why does it have to be some sort of BEC in your K2 Konjecture; whats wrong with SPP's (surface plasmon polaritons), as in the Widom Larson Theory?

It doesen't; there's absolutely nothing wrong with SPPs. But that is K1. What I am not sold on is the external creation of a neutron. I am less and less opposed to it as I learn more.

At one time I had believed that the reaction must ABSORB a neutrino. Now I find out it can happen with the release of one. Thus it is more plausible than I had thought when I developed K1.

On the other hand... IF Rossi is not flat out lying... the only thing I could come up with that seemed to fit the characteristics was a proton absorbtion reaction which seems to allow that 58Ni is less reactive than 64Ni and odd isotopes of even numbered elements are less reactive...

WL might be very true, but not cover the Rossi reaction.

I suspect that time will tell.

[Giorgio]

I am NOT claiming this IS, just that it COULD be. After all, lack of evidence of existance is NOT equal to evidence of lack of existance.

I am too rational for this way of thinking.
You know, going by this logic than we should give the benefit of doubts also to UFO conspiracy believers, Astrologists, Future prediction magicians and so on.
Maybe I am too much rational some times, but I found out in the years that this gives the best results (at least in my case).

I KNOW that meso-american indians were dropping large stones onto mammoths to good effect WELL before Galileo dropped those balls from the tower of Pisa. Art vs. Science, ya know.

Uhm.. I fail to see how this can be relevant to the discussion.
Are you implying that we should take Rossi experiments as art and not as science?
If that's the point I can't but agree, but someone should advise Rossi too!

So we have a difference of definition here. Seems to meet all the characteristics of a BEC. If it Looks like a BEC and Shakes like a BEC...

Do you see any condensate of non interaction Bosons at ground state in a Laser?
Do you see a condensate AT ALL in a Laser?

[Giorgio]

WL might be very true, but not cover the Rossi reaction.

I suspect that time will tell.

I suspect time will just make this story fade away like if never existed.
At least this looks the attitude Rossi is taking from his latest posts:


"Andrea Rossi
December 10th, 2011 at 10:17 AM
Dear Francesco Fiorenzani:
As I already repeated many times, all the R&D work we are doing with our Consultants is totally confidential and we are not going to give any information about it. If reports will be made, it will not be before 1 year from now, and such information will regard only the data we will deem publicable, since all the R&D is paid by us, not by the taxpayer, so that it will be totally proprietary.
We will not even disclose the names of the persons which will make the job.
Warm Regards,A.R."

[parallel]

I suspect time will just make this story fade away like if never existed.
At least this looks the attitude Rossi is taking from his latest posts:

Classic scam techniques. No publicity. No requests for cash from investors.
Obviously he is a fraud and all this will fade away even as working units are sold on the open market.

[Betruger]

The only "obvious" thing at this point is that the sooner Rossi's taken out of the LENR picture, the better.