10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Hey Celani folk,
How bout starting a new Celani-replication thread and keep it a Rossi-free zone? Leave this one to the Rossi-haters and their debaters.

Parallel,
How bout starting a new general LENR-News thread and keep it a Rossi-free zone. You can still post Rossi news here.

Sound good to folk?

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Joseph Chikva wrote:
Skipjack wrote:Dont be so lazy!
It is all in the blog and on their website. They are live streaming a whole bunch of values too. You can check the graphs where it says Live Stream (the stream seems to be off now. I guess they shut the experiment down).
You can go back though and check. It seems that the experiment ran from the 12th to the 15th. That is 3 days.
As I said, I am not ruling out epxerimental error or a chemical reaction and neither are the people running the experiment.
Thank you. Because I do not believe in LENR, it is less interesting for me. May be I am wrong, but very likely that I am right. As absence of even mention of metal hydriding chemical reaction causes me to think so.
So, they have all opportunities to achieve success independently. :)
Well, you seem to be the expert on metal hydide forming. So you should post it there. Also, this is not a matter of believe, but of real science. These guys will accept negative results equally to positive ones and they already had an instance where they identified a potentially damning experimental error in one setup that they had, thanks to skeptics pointing them out to them.

Joseph Chikva
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Post by Joseph Chikva »

Skipjack wrote:Well, you seem to be the expert on metal hydide forming. So you should post it there.
My knowledge that conditions mentioned by LENR people are typical for metal hydride forming does not mean that I am an expert in this field. Yes, I've read something about hydrides when I was interested in hydrogen storage challenge about 25-30 years ago. That time I was a Polytechnical School student.
And I should nothing. All people do the certain actions correspondently to their interests. And as mentioned I have not such an interest. And also have not any responsibility to do something.
If you are interested, you can (not responsible but can!) give them idea about exothermic nature of metal hydrides forming reaction.

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

So, it looks like the 1MW in Bologna still has not moved. So much for "sold", "gone", "delivered"...etc.

http://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/kal ... arnkraften

See timehack 1:15 or so in the video.

At another point in the video (time 40 ish), Rossi is heard saying, "This plant is a commerical plant... and is going to work in industry in Europe very soon..."

Note the close up around time 47 showing the box and conduit detail in the bottom right corner of the frame with the two connection points showing. This same connection/pull box is visible in most all historical photos and videos of the unit.

There is also a dent on the back end of the unit on the outside, to the right of center near the ground. Also in the same areas are un-used mounting holes drilled in the container below and to the left and right of the vents. On the left side, (from outside and looking at the vents) are two closely drilled distinctive holes that recur in many photos going back to around the 2011 October testing.

Given evidence strongly suggests that this unit has never moved, one has to ask what has happened since he claimed they were in use already by the secret military customer, and the secret "you (special qualified people only) can visit it in operation" commercial customer?

Of course ecat.com also still claims that 2012 will (it's over now genius) see the delivery of 30 to 300 1MW units.

Cue debate on what Rossi REALLY means.

In case you were wondering what it looked like back when:

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... -page-view

Scroll down for different views and feel free to compare them against the video showing the same areas. Pull box locations, conduit bends and connectors are very much in the same places. Container location, and internal details very much match each other and speak to this being the same unit (again).

And is you are still unsure, watch this video of the same unit from a video posted September 15, 2011. Note again the conduit and pull box details. Later in its life, Rossi has added the circulating pumps and tinfoil coverings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjI9CW-TeQI

Also note, that Rossi has claimed changes in reactors that would indicate follow-on units would no longer have the need for roof mounted boxes, etc. He claimed higher power desities and reactor box counts went down for given power outputs.

And, let us not forget he has already sold many (14+) of these per his own quotes.
So where are they? And why does this one (that has been sold and quoted as delivered) never move?

Edited for photo/video details & ecat.com comment.
Last edited by ladajo on Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Joseph Chikva wrote:
Skipjack wrote:Well, you seem to be the expert on metal hydide forming. So you should post it there.
My knowledge that conditions mentioned by LENR people are typical for metal hydride forming does not mean that I am an expert in this field. Yes, I've read something about hydrides when I was interested in hydrogen storage challenge about 25-30 years ago. That time I was a Polytechnical School student.
And I should nothing. All people do the certain actions correspondently to their interests. And as mentioned I have not such an interest. And also have not any responsibility to do something.
If you are interested, you can (not responsible but can!) give them idea about exothermic nature of metal hydrides forming reaction.
For the same reasons, why should I bother?
I am not into that whole thing so much either. I just linked the experiment and their preliminary results.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

ladajo wrote:So, it looks like the 1MW in Bologna still has not moved. So much for "sold", "gone", "delivered"...etc.
Boy your x-ray vision must be phenomenal! I can't see any of the identicalities you see behind all the massively obvious differences.

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

Time for new glasses to assist in your retirement? :D

Seriously, one of the more convincing tells is the noted connection box in the new Swedish video around time 47 in the bottom right corner of the frame. This same box is visible in older photos, such as the POPSCI article.

The conduit bends and connectors are also good clues. It is unlikely to make those the same way twice, especially given Rossi's hand construction techniques. (So much for the million E-cats per year robotic factory in the US...)

Here you can see the two drilled mounting holes below the yellow caution sticker (from the POPSCI article):

Image

Here you can see the POPSCI photo of the same 4 square terminal box from time 47 in the Swedish video in the right side of the photo:

Image

You can also see the details of the 4 squares on the opposite side of the container are seemingly indentical to the photos from POPSCI.

The only difference I can see is that the time 47 4 square box is not connected in the swedish video due to the cell being out (as are others in the video) for some reason.

Now if we could just see the back end of the container in the Swedish TV show to see if the mounting holes and dent are the same it would be conclusive.
Dent just visible here bottom right between pumps. Unused mounting holes also visible.

Image

Anyone see the entire show? Is it online yet?
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Rossi busted again.

See time 33:04 in the Swedish video. Same Ecat. Never moved.
The un-used two drilled mounting holes are clearly visible. Also plainly visible at time 33:37 in the video.

From the entire show video:

"Vetenskapens värld, 17/12"

Hit link on right side of screen, then you can full screen and run the slider ahead to the pertinant points. Rossi starts getting most play from time 30 and on.

http://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/kal ... arnkraften
Last edited by ladajo on Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Sorry Frank, it is the same Ecat that has never moved.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/12/e-cat-plant-sighting/

I do not have enough motivation to repeat the photos above on his page with the corrosponding video time hacks. That would also mean that I would need to set up an account over there, which I am also not willing to do.

The mounting holes are a dead give away Rossi. Once again you are proved full of shit.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
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Location: Third rock from the sun.

Post by paperburn1 »

ladajo wrote:Sorry Frank, it is the same Ecat that has never moved.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/12/e-cat-plant-sighting/

I do not have enough motivation to repeat the photos above on his page with the corrosponding video time hacks. That would also mean that I would need to set up an account over there, which I am also not willing to do.

The mounting holes are a dead give away Rossi. Once again you are proved full of shit.
MAYBE he is ISO9000 compliant :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: yes I am joking. FYI that web site you posted sets off my malware detector for email harvesters

paperburn1
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Post by paperburn1 »

paperburn1 wrote: MAYBE he is ISO9000 compliant :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: yes I am joking. FYI that web site you posted sets off my malware detector for email harvesters
URL:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/12/
e-cat-plant-sighting/

Blocked by Web Anti-Virus

Reason: malicious link

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Ladajo,
In your post of 3:06 pm, 17 Dec, there are three links. The first is the recent Kall-fusion; the second, the PopSci; and the third the one you say is from Sep 2011. Please note the the PopSci and Kall-fusion MIGHT be the same box (or maybe different boxes of the same design [what a concept, the same design case for different units!]), though they look to be in different places to me. But the Sep'11 unit is totally different. The holes you point out are not there, the color is different, and the units are in completely different positions. It is YOU who is busted here. Shame, shame! :)

PS: The Pop&Kall units MAY be the same one. But that really proves nothing. Your contention has been the the original unit is still there. It ain't.

ladajo
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Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Kite, did you happen to notice that the 2011 version was incomplete, and that the pumps were added afterwards.

It is the same unit. Believe what you wish.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

KitemanSA
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

ladajo wrote:Kite, did you happen to notice that the 2011 version was incomplete, and that the pumps were added afterwards.

It is the same unit. Believe what you wish.
No holes, different color, totally different position. Not the same unit.

MSimon
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Contact:

Post by MSimon »

KitemanSA wrote:
ladajo wrote:Kite, did you happen to notice that the 2011 version was incomplete, and that the pumps were added afterwards.

It is the same unit. Believe what you wish.
No holes, different color, totally different position. Not the same unit.
If there are holes in the earlier unit and not a later one.

Generally when doing forensics it can be assumed that holes are easier to make than to fill.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

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