10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Kahuna
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Postby Kahuna » Tue May 22, 2012 12:35 pm

From time-to-time posters here have mentioned Blacklight Power (BLP) in passing while discussing the claims of the LENR folks (Rossi, DGT, etc.). BLP has been very quiet from a long time and I wondered how they could stand to be upstaged by the Italians and Greeks. Well they finally speak (press release):

http://dev.blacklightpower.com/press/052212-2/

Validation Reports here:

http://www.blacklightpower.com/technolo ... n-reports/

Seems like a fairly reputable group of chaps.

seedload
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Postby seedload » Tue May 22, 2012 2:22 pm

KitemanSA wrote:And by the way, I am not actually defending Rossi, I am defending the scientific system, one that requires EVIDENCE, not just hear-say. And the Rossi-bites have no more solid evidence that I can see than the Rossi-ites. No data either way. No decision.


Ridiculous. If you were defending the scientific system, then Rossi would be your first target. You can't demand scientific scrutiny of something and someone who is so completely unscientific. Your entire basis for being a defender of the greater scientific truth is total hogwash. Your standards are wrong.

And to top it off, the notion that you are applying equal standards to 'bites' and 'ites' alike is an even greater load of BS. You heap on the defense while never finding the holes yourself. You are either fooling yourself or purposefully trolling.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

tomclarke
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Postby tomclarke » Tue May 22, 2012 2:51 pm

seedload wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:And by the way, I am not actually defending Rossi, I am defending the scientific system, one that requires EVIDENCE, not just hear-say. And the Rossi-bites have no more solid evidence that I can see than the Rossi-ites. No data either way. No decision.


Ridiculous. If you were defending the scientific system, then Rossi would be your first target. You can't demand scientific scrutiny of something and someone who is so completely unscientific. Your entire basis for being a defender of the greater scientific truth is total hogwash. Your standards are wrong.

And to top it off, the notion that you are applying equal standards to 'bites' and 'ites' alike is an even greater load of BS. You heap on the defense while never finding the holes yourself. You are either fooling yourself or purposefully trolling.


Kite -

Science does not give credibility to every half-arsed theory with no evidence. If it did there would be for example 1,000,000 theories competitive with the standard theory, 99% of which are obviously internally inconsistent.

What you mean, is that we cannot be scientifically certain that Rossi is a fake/flake. (I won't get involved here in deciding which).

Certainty, in science, is a pretty high hurdle. I can't be scientifically certain you are not an agent provocateur from Jupiter. But it seems unlikely, and I'm not going to set P.I.s onto you in the hope of the science news story of the century.

Science provides a (fairly) level playing field. Rossi can write up his stuff, theories or experiment, and get it published. Or just write it up self-published as he has. If others think there might be something they will try replicating, and so it goes.

A bit like selling something in a free market.

The fact that Rossi claims to have a scientific discovery does not give him any more credibility than if he claimed some other unlikely but unsubstantiated thing. For example that he was a billionaire. Nor is it necessary for us to be specially fair to him just because he claims to be a scientist.

tomclarke
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Postby tomclarke » Tue May 22, 2012 2:54 pm

Kahuna wrote:From time-to-time posters here have mentioned Blacklight Power (BLP) in passing while discussing the claims of the LENR folks (Rossi, DGT, etc.). BLP has been very quiet from a long time and I wondered how they could stand to be upstaged by the Italians and Greeks. Well they finally speak (press release):

http://dev.blacklightpower.com/press/052212-2/

Validation Reports here:

http://www.blacklightpower.com/technolo ... n-reports/

Seems like a fairly reputable group of chaps.


I think, as people who make persistent unsubstantiated claims go, they are.

Shame no 3rd party validation, don't you think? NASA would do it, I'm sure.

KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Tue May 22, 2012 3:00 pm

Double post of corrected reply to seedload below.
Last edited by KitemanSA on Tue May 22, 2012 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

parallel
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Postby parallel » Tue May 22, 2012 3:00 pm

As Rossi has pointed out numerous times, no amount of confirmation by third parties will ever convince true skeptics, only sale of working product.

Looks like he is right.

In passing, what difference would it make if Rossi arranged for a third party test, acceptable to all, that showed it worked? None except increase the competition, increase the risk to his life and reduce the noise level from the pseudo-skeptics.
Last edited by parallel on Tue May 22, 2012 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Tue May 22, 2012 3:00 pm

seedload wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:And by the way, I am not actually defending Rossi, I am defending the scientific system, one that requires EVIDENCE, not just hear-say. And the Rossi-bites have no more solid evidence that I can see than the Rossi-ites. No data either way. No decision.


Ridiculous. If you were defending the scientific system, then Rossi would be your first target. You can't demand scientific scrutiny of something and someone who is so completely unscientific. Your entire basis for being a defender of the greater scientific truth is total hogwash. Your standards are wrong.

And to top it off, the notion that you are applying equal standards to 'bites' and 'ites' alike is an even greater load of BS. You heap on the defense while never finding the holes yourself. You are either fooling yourself or purposefully trolling.
You are the one making definitive statements, not me. My opinion is that Rossi has not substantiated his technical claims. My opinion is that you have not substantialted your personality claims.

You do write as if you are a hate-filled little man. You may wish to re-think your style.

KitemanSA
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Postby KitemanSA » Tue May 22, 2012 3:08 pm

tomclarke wrote: Kite -

Science does not give credibility to every half-arsed theory with no evidence.
If you have actually read what I have written you would KNOW without a shred of doubt, that I agree with you on this point.
tomclarke wrote: What you mean, is that we cannot be scientifically certain that Rossi is a fake/flake. (I won't get involved here in deciding which).
Seems YOU get it.
tomclarke wrote: Certainty, in science, is a pretty high hurdle. I can't be scientifically certain you are not an agent provocateur from Jupiter. But it seems unlikely, and I'm not going to set P.I.s onto you in the hope of the science news story of the century.

Science provides a (fairly) level playing field. Rossi can write up his stuff, theories or experiment, and get it published. Or just write it up self-published as he has. If others think there might be something they will try replicating, and so it goes.

A bit like selling something in a free market.
Yup.
tomclarke wrote: The fact that Rossi claims to have a scientific discovery does not give him any more credibility than if he claimed some other unlikely but unsubstantiated thing. For example that he was a billionaire. Nor is it necessary for us to be specially fair to him just because he claims to be a scientist.
Agreed. But neither does that lack of scientific credibility make him a liar. Other possibilities exist. He may be mistaken. He may be mentally ill. There is a small possibility that he is just a very annoying genius. But so far, I have seen nothing to prove he is in fact a "liar".

Tick, tock.

parallel
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Postby parallel » Tue May 22, 2012 3:40 pm

There is very little to see, but here is a video of the NANOR cold fusion experiment at MIT that has been running contentiously since January.

Suggest fast forward to 3:45 mins. http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/05/video ... ce-at-mit/

If you have a dozen groups claiming cold fusion and MIT hot fusion physicists say it doesn't work, who would you believe? tomclarke knows the answer.

Ivy Matt
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Re: Nothing cheaper than talk

Postby Ivy Matt » Tue May 22, 2012 3:57 pm

Betruger wrote:So.... Can we look inside Rossi's black box yet?

Well, given that the melting point of lead is 327.46 °C, I suppose you ought to be able to look into now, assuming you were in the same room with it.
Temperature, density, confinement time: pick any two.

rcain
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Postby rcain » Tue May 22, 2012 4:30 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
rcain wrote: ... i think it is a proven legal fact that he has has 'lied'.
Really? Cite?
I know he has been convicted of a failure to meet contractual obligations, but was there the added "INTENTIONAL" in there? I am asking because I don't know. If you have a cite or a site, please provide.

Thanks


i would have to look it up. my own interpretation of events surrounding PetroDragon was that there was 'consipracy' to 'dump' and 'conceal' toxic waste. Rossi being part of it.


IIRC there was an earlier trial/arrest in connection with gold smuggling and money laundering, but he was acquitted/got off. (got lucky or well connected more likely - IMHO - this is Italy under Berlusconi after all.

cite: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer - other places.

whilst technical exactitudes can be quibbled over - the questionable 'form' of the man seems evident and consistent to me - a bit of a 'scoundrel'. a 'historical fact'.

it will be interesting to see what (if anything) flushes out of LENR generally over the next 6 months or so. If anything does, I predict Rossi will very soon find himself outclassed (as if he was't 'challenged' enough as it is). Also, I doubt he has many funds left to defend/reapply for patent and seek any necessary injunctions / fight divorce/alimony with his wife.

we shall see. Keep up the good work Rossi! - we expect great things... ;)

ps. Kite - yes happy retirement old chap. i suppose life now changes somehow. speaking as someone who is forced to work till work kills me - i have turned already a large part of my 'working life' into a 'retirement lifestyle' - thus preparing myself for the luxury i might otherwise never enjoy.

does retirement mean you will revivifying your lab in the garage/in the basement? anything planed?

ladajo
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Re: Nothing cheaper than talk

Postby ladajo » Tue May 22, 2012 6:00 pm

Ivy Matt wrote:
Betruger wrote:So.... Can we look inside Rossi's black box yet?

Well, given that the melting point of lead is 327.46 °C, I suppose you ought to be able to look into now, assuming you were in the same room with it.


Stop inserting reality into Rossiworld. It is not permitted.
His 600C Ecat is proven and in production in secret factories everywhere. And the US Navy is using one to heat the large secret underground bases where aliens are housed with Elvis.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Postby ladajo » Tue May 22, 2012 6:14 pm

Please feel free to contact Florida BRC and bring them up to date on Rossiworld:

paul_vause@doh.state.fl.us

or call him at:

850-245-4545

Full Address:
Paul E. Vause, Jr.
Environmental Administrator
Radioactive Materials Program
Bureau of Radiation Control
Division of Environmental Health
4052 Bald Cypress Way, Bin C21
Tallahassee, FL 32399-1741
Phone - (850) 245-4545
Fax - (850) 921-6364

Ref: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiEC ... Report.pdf
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ladajo
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Postby ladajo » Tue May 22, 2012 6:17 pm

The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

tomclarke
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Postby tomclarke » Tue May 22, 2012 9:15 pm

parallel wrote:There is very little to see, but here is a video of the NANOR cold fusion experiment at MIT that has been running contentiously since January.

Suggest fast forward to 3:45 mins. http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/05/video ... ce-at-mit/

If you have a dozen groups claiming cold fusion and MIT hot fusion physicists say it doesn't work, who would you believe? tomclarke knows the answer.

Parallel. I don't know the answer - but it sounds liek you do.

Looking carefully, LENR remains very unlikely. The claims now are nearly all from people around a long time, who have come publicly out of the woodwork on rossi-fever.

That does not make the story more likely.

Just one of these groups with credible written up results, enough to be either 3rd party tested or published and replicated. Just one. And there would be a phenomena of great interest to many.

Without that, it seems very unlikely that there is such a phenomena. After all, anyone who got proper 3rd party verification or a proper paper from a working device would have many rewards. So you woulr reckon if this can be done, it would have been. And apparently positive results from flakey experiments are two a penny.

If it can't be done by far the most likely explanation is that this is because there is no nuclear anything going on - nor any hydrinos!

PS - unless your theories are very weird half the positive LENR results must be experimental error. Since half relate to D and half to H. The underlying hypothesised mechanisms are different and mutually exclusive. The chances of two separate unusual mechanisms both being true seems highly unlikely.

So you know most likely half the LENR positives (either D or H) are error. Does that increase your faith in the other half?


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