10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Postby MSimon » Mon May 07, 2012 8:49 pm

You might try following the subject if you are going to comment. Rossi has been writing about getting UL certification since the start of this year. It is indeed required to sell a domestic product.


So has he been selling them or not?
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Postby MSimon » Mon May 07, 2012 8:53 pm

OK. I get it. Home units. Cool.

The deal about UL is that they do not require proof of device operation. Just safety.

And the neat thing is that if UL says "unsafe" he can start the clock again while he "redesigns". Cool.
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parallel
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Postby parallel » Mon May 07, 2012 10:08 pm

tomclarke wrote:
parallel wrote:May I remind you of our bet? We should know the outcome by the end of this year. When do you suppose there will be news of a commercial Polywell?


Did not you say much the same last year?


As I recall it, you were not prepared to bet me, wanting to add all kinds of provisions to a simple bet. MSimon however did bet me.
As I said, we should know who is right by the end of the year.

Incidentally, you claimed you had never seen a report of a working LENR experiment that you could believe. What about the ongoing one at MIT or doesn't that count?

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Postby ladajo » Tue May 08, 2012 12:01 am

MSimon wrote:OK. I get it. Home units. Cool.

The deal about UL is that they do not require proof of device operation. Just safety.

And the neat thing is that if UL says "unsafe" he can start the clock again while he "redesigns". Cool.


Actually, in this case, by law, UL is required to test for thermal efficiency, and then rate the device in addition to meeting the safety standards. Rossi has opened a can of worms he has yet to understand. All he has done to date, (after lying about it for quite a while) is finally fill out the initial round of paperwork for UL (maybe, at least he more or less said he has, sort of). The other issue Rossi will run into with UL is that they will have to determine if it produces any sort of radiation, and if it does, that it meets all the federal standards for shielding and waste products. Rossi is in for a long and painful road if anything he has claimed has any sort of truth. But of course, trying to figure out if it makes gammas or not, is fully dependant on which Rossi-quote you wish to cite.

One should also point out that recently Rossi has claimed production and operation of 1MW Ecats here in the States (again), even after he told Florida BRC that there is/are none.

You can search FPDS six ways from Sunday with anything even remotely connected to Rossi, and you will find NO MONEY SPENT BY THE US GOVERNMENT ON ROSSI-CRAP. He is lying.

Rossi is full of shit.
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Postby KitemanSA » Tue May 08, 2012 12:29 am

MSimon wrote: The deal about UL is that they do not require proof of device operation. Just safety.
Not quite so. They require proof of safety "while operating". Otherwise anyone could present a toaster and say it is safe. See it just sits there. No, it is nopt plugged in, but it is safe!

What I'm NOT sure they require is demonstration of a certain level of output, (i.e., performance level) while "operating". So it is entirely possible that he might obtain a "safety" cert for what is in essense simply an electric water heater.

I do qualification testing myself (more accurately, approval of qualification testing). Were I an UL test tech, I would require the unit be operated at its rated OUTPUT state, not just plugged in. But that is just me.

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Postby KitemanSA » Tue May 08, 2012 12:35 am

ladajo wrote: One should also point out that recently Rossi has claimed production and operation of 1MW Ecats here in the States (again), even after he told Florida BRC that there is/are none.
Really? I must have missed that. Can you quote him on that? The only statement I recall was from the FBRC fellow who said Rossi said that "CURRENTLY" ... in Europe. Did I miss something where ROSSI said...?

One of these days, I may go thru that long list of quotes you generated and see if there were any irreconsilable contradictions. But not now.

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Postby ladajo » Tue May 08, 2012 12:46 am

Yes. Really.

And now for fun, a Mr. Roger Green of Australia, has a nice glossy brochure, that claims 1MW Ecats using National Instruments controls can be shipped from Miami, FL, and Rossi says he knows all about it.

Of course, the included color photos are of the 1MW unit sitting in the garage in Bologna. Never a pic of one anywhere else. Strange that.

Really.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

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Postby KitemanSA » Tue May 08, 2012 1:15 am

ladajo wrote:Yes. Really.
I know he claims there are some. I have failed to find the statement by him that there are none. The FBRC fellow claims to quote him (IIRC) saying none CURRENTLY.

So, how long is "currently"?

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Postby MSimon » Tue May 08, 2012 6:38 am

Actually, in this case, by law, UL is required to test for thermal efficiency, and then rate the device in addition to meeting the safety standards.


Obviously I am years out of date re:UL. It has been a while. A Long while.

Thanks to all who have corrected me.
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Postby cgray45 » Tue May 08, 2012 6:57 am

MSimon wrote:
The 30,000 (if I recall correctly) artillery pieces that North Korea has trained on Seoul


And the number of those that are actually operational?


I doubt anyone knows, which makes it a heck of a game of Russian roulette if you live in Seoul.
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Postby ladajo » Tue May 08, 2012 1:43 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
ladajo wrote:Yes. Really.
I know he claims there are some. I have failed to find the statement by him that there are none. The FBRC fellow claims to quote him (IIRC) saying none CURRENTLY.

So, how long is "currently"?


Currently in Rossiworld is forever/never.

Rossi has stated the he has factories (two) in the US. Then he has said he will set up his first factory in the US. Then he says he has a factory in Miami. Then he says he has no factory in the US. Then he says he is making one in a secret location (in Florida, in Miami, or maybe not).

These are all Rossiquotes. And, it is also Rossi quoted by FBRC in an official legal report, after a direct interview of Rossi in his Miami apartment (Office/Headquarters/factory...).

When you feel interested enough go read the quotes. And please remember that I only took them up to the lead in to the October 11 test in Bologna. There are many many more contradictions and reversals since then, that even tie back in to the cited period.

No one has yet to ask Rossi how he shipped a container (with equipment mounted externally on it's roof) so fast from the US (where it was repeatedly claimed to have been built), to Bologna, for the October test. No apparent need for customs filings, custom containerization/handling (due to externally mounted kit on roof), radiation certifications, etc. He did it in less than four weeks. possibly even two weeks. I am very impressed. I mean it takes two weeks to steam from the US to Italy alone. It is about 5,500 miles. And that is a direct sail. It does not account for any other stops, which is likely with a commercial lift. Say each stop adds a day of travel...blah blah blah...

Evidence says he is living a fantasy. The only "1MW" was built in the garage in Bologna, and is still there. There was no customer. And, funny how the mystery customer official representative fell off the planet after the test. No record of him existing before, and no record after. None.
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Postby tomclarke » Tue May 08, 2012 3:38 pm

parallel wrote:
tomclarke wrote:
parallel wrote:May I remind you of our bet? We should know the outcome by the end of this year. When do you suppose there will be news of a commercial Polywell?


Did not you say much the same last year?


As I recall it, you were not prepared to bet me, wanting to add all kinds of provisions to a simple bet. MSimon however did bet me.
As I said, we should know who is right by the end of the year.

Incidentally, you claimed you had never seen a report of a working LENR experiment that you could believe. What about the ongoing one at MIT or doesn't that count?


Sorry - I am interested in it. I've never yet seen a write-up in sufficient detail to let me work out what are the likely calorimetry errors, nor the other obvious issues. But doubtless it will be posted as a publishable quality paper soon - even if the conspiracy you perhaps believe exists prevents peer-reviewed publication.

You don't need peer review to write decent papers - though it does help!

PS - MSimon, I could never get parallel to indicate what he would take as evidence of the Rossi thing not working. 13+ failed demos have not done the trick. Hope you have better luck!

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Postby tomclarke » Tue May 08, 2012 3:45 pm

ladajo wrote:Yes. Really.

And now for fun, a Mr. Roger Green of Australia, has a nice glossy brochure, that claims 1MW Ecats using National Instruments controls can be shipped from Miami, FL, and Rossi says he knows all about it.

Of course, the included color photos are of the 1MW unit sitting in the garage in Bologna. Never a pic of one anywhere else. Strange that.

Really.


I guess, having paid Rossi $100K (not quite sure of the currency unit - but enough to hurt) and printed his brochures, he must be getting a bit upset.

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Postby MSimon » Tue May 08, 2012 3:45 pm

PS - MSimon, I could never get parallel to indicate what he would take as evidence of the Rossi thing not working. 13+ failed demos have not done the trick. Hope you have better luck!


The cost is small. All I have to do is to admit I'm an idiot in public. ;-)

It does keep the fools interested and proclaiming wonders. Worth it for the entertainment value alone.
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Postby tomclarke » Tue May 08, 2012 5:15 pm

MSimon wrote:
PS - MSimon, I could never get parallel to indicate what he would take as evidence of the Rossi thing not working. 13+ failed demos have not done the trick. Hope you have better luck!


The cost is small. All I have to do is to admit I'm an idiot in public. ;-)

It does keep the fools interested and proclaiming wonders. Worth it for the entertainment value alone.


Yes indeed. Anyway there is a difference between admitting one was wrong, and admitting one was an idiot. Only idiots imagine it is impossible to be wrong.

Though in this case I don't think much chance of either.


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