10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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ScottL
Posts: 1122
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:26 pm

Post by ScottL »

Liar as a term is subjective. How many lies equates to a liar? How many truths negate that label? All rhetorical questions of course, but the truth is that we can't quantitatively give a definitive answer and Kite seems to thrive on that thought. Has Rossi lied? I believe so, but then I also believe as the more Rossi talks, the faster he approaches the label Liar.

On a positive note, if ever found yourself on trial for anything, Kite would be a good juror to have as he'll never come to a definitive answer.

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Post by seedload »

KitemanSA wrote:
seedload wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:Your opinion need not be a valid statement. But a statement "He is a liar" is a statement of purported FACT. Statements of fact should be be valid.
Saying "he is a liar" is not necessarily a statement of fact. In the majority of contexts, it is a statement of opinion.
Often it is a statment of opinion by little people who want to make their opinion APPEAR to be "true". In other words, THEY are the liar when they make statements of opinion SEEM to be statements of fact.

So is it your "opinion" or a fact? Perhaps you hould use the language more clearly.
Is what my opinion? What language of mine are you referring to?

As far as I know we weren't even discussing what I said.

If you want to know if my judgement is that Rossi is a liar, then the answer is yes. However, I don't think that I have represented the notion that Rossi is a liar to be a fact. Maybe you are mixing people up. If you insist that I have directly called Rossi a liar then:

Cite please?!
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

polyill
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:29 am

Post by polyill »

KitemanSA,

You've gone funny with your "Data please". You are like a broken robot or something.

Try to watch again the video of Rossi's demo for Krivit or any other interview with the man.
I guess you have done that at least once, hunting for data. Now do it again, a little different - don't put your attention to the "data" Rossi tries to relay to you in his sayings - nothing new there, but instead try to get an impression of the man.

What do you feel when you observe him and listen to the tone of his voice? Compare that impression to that of some other people (Bussard? Musk?)

Please, do share your results.

JoeP
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Post by JoeP »

polyill wrote:KitemanSA,

You've gone funny with your "Data please". You are like a broken robot or something.

Try to watch again the video of Rossi's demo for Krivit or any other interview with the man.
I guess you have done that at least once, hunting for data. Now do it again, a little different - don't put your attention to the "data" Rossi tries to relay to you in his sayings - nothing new there, but instead try to get an impression of the man.

What do you feel when you observe him and listen to the tone of his voice? Compare that impression to that of some other people (Bussard? Musk?)

Please, do share your results.
You weren't asking me, but I'll chime in with my impression.

Haven't watched these videos in a while, but I remember thinking Rossi appears somewhat earnest, and a bit overwhelmed and stressed. I don't get the conman vibe from him too much on video, if at all. Maybe because some of my ancestors are working class Italian immigrants to the USA -- Rossi is kind of like some of those old school uncles I remember from when I was a kid.

I think the best explanation is Rossi really thought he had something, but isn't able to get anything consistent out of it since his results are wholly or partially from experimental error. So he dances around and gets frustrated. Does not handle pressure well and promises more than he can actually deliver on. And he digs himself a deep hole that he can't get out of...

polyill
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:29 am

Post by polyill »

JoeP wrote:
polyill wrote:KitemanSA,

You've gone funny with your "Data please". You are like a broken robot or something.

Try to watch again the video of Rossi's demo for Krivit or any other interview with the man.
I guess you have done that at least once, hunting for data. Now do it again, a little different - don't put your attention to the "data" Rossi tries to relay to you in his sayings - nothing new there, but instead try to get an impression of the man.

What do you feel when you observe him and listen to the tone of his voice? Compare that impression to that of some other people (Bussard? Musk?)

Please, do share your results.
You weren't asking me, but I'll chime in with my impression.

Haven't watched these videos in a while, but I remember thinking Rossi appears somewhat earnest, and a bit overwhelmed and stressed. I don't get the conman vibe from him too much on video, if at all. Maybe because some of my ancestors are working class Italian immigrants to the USA -- Rossi is kind of like some of those old school uncles I remember from when I was a kid.

I think the best explanation is Rossi really thought he had something, but isn't able to get anything consistent out of it since his results are wholly or partially from experimental error. So he dances around and gets frustrated. Does not handle pressure well and promises more than he can actually deliver on. And he digs himself a deep hole that he can't get out of...
In other words, your impression is that he's stupid, but has no bad intentions. His biography would then suggest he is incredibly stupid and unwilling to learn anything from past mistakes? :)

JoeP
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Post by JoeP »

polyill wrote:
JoeP wrote:
polyill wrote:KitemanSA,

You've gone funny with your "Data please". You are like a broken robot or something.

Try to watch again the video of Rossi's demo for Krivit or any other interview with the man.
I guess you have done that at least once, hunting for data. Now do it again, a little different - don't put your attention to the "data" Rossi tries to relay to you in his sayings - nothing new there, but instead try to get an impression of the man.

What do you feel when you observe him and listen to the tone of his voice? Compare that impression to that of some other people (Bussard? Musk?)

Please, do share your results.
You weren't asking me, but I'll chime in with my impression.

Haven't watched these videos in a while, but I remember thinking Rossi appears somewhat earnest, and a bit overwhelmed and stressed. I don't get the conman vibe from him too much on video, if at all. Maybe because some of my ancestors are working class Italian immigrants to the USA -- Rossi is kind of like some of those old school uncles I remember from when I was a kid.

I think the best explanation is Rossi really thought he had something, but isn't able to get anything consistent out of it since his results are wholly or partially from experimental error. So he dances around and gets frustrated. Does not handle pressure well and promises more than he can actually deliver on. And he digs himself a deep hole that he can't get out of...
In other words, your impression is that he's stupid, but has no bad intentions. His biography would then suggest he is incredibly stupid and unwilling to learn anything from past mistakes? :)
This is funny. Your summary of my characterization of my impression of Rossi -- just from viewing Rossi videos -- is completely inaccurate. Remember, the question was what is your impression based on the video(s). In other words, an emotional and social interpretation.

But lets go with it. Where did I say stupid or imply stupidity in my impression of Rossi? And how can you come away with that term after reviewing my impression of Rossi.

Stupid is a relative term, right? Lets think about this. I would say that has to mean on the lower side of intellect at the minimum definition, right?

Is Rossi above average in intelligence, on the right side of the bell curve? I would estimate that as a yes. He can speak reasonably well over the average. He is multi-lingual to a degree. He can do high school level math or more. I say least a 101 IQ. Is that stupid?

Is he gifted? 140+ IQ? Probably not. However without subjecting the man to standardized tests, it is not possible to narrow it down to closely.

So I estimate a range of 101 <> 135 without more info. This is not the stupidity zone.

See the following link for a nice summary of IQ ranges and ability mapping.

http://www.paulcooijmans.com/intelligen ... anges.html

tomclarke
Posts: 1683
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:52 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Post by tomclarke »

JoeP wrote:
polyill wrote:KitemanSA,

You've gone funny with your "Data please". You are like a broken robot or something.

Try to watch again the video of Rossi's demo for Krivit or any other interview with the man.
I guess you have done that at least once, hunting for data. Now do it again, a little different - don't put your attention to the "data" Rossi tries to relay to you in his sayings - nothing new there, but instead try to get an impression of the man.

What do you feel when you observe him and listen to the tone of his voice? Compare that impression to that of some other people (Bussard? Musk?)

Please, do share your results.
You weren't asking me, but I'll chime in with my impression.

Haven't watched these videos in a while, but I remember thinking Rossi appears somewhat earnest, and a bit overwhelmed and stressed. I don't get the conman vibe from him too much on video, if at all. Maybe because some of my ancestors are working class Italian immigrants to the USA -- Rossi is kind of like some of those old school uncles I remember from when I was a kid.

I think the best explanation is Rossi really thought he had something, but isn't able to get anything consistent out of it since his results are wholly or partially from experimental error. So he dances around and gets frustrated. Does not handle pressure well and promises more than he can actually deliver on. And he digs himself a deep hole that he can't get out of...
That sounds about right, except that he makes incorrect and self-contradictory claims so often he is either egregiously optimistic or deliberately misleading. In particular his science claims appear to be total bullshit, whatever will please his current audience.

I agree it does not have to be the latter, but such self-deception is not very usual if not.

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

I think you are all wasting your breath with Kite, as he admits clearly that he has not really looked at the evidence of Rossi being a liar. "Cursory" to use his own words.

It is like arguing with Joseph.

You make a statement, you back it up with references, he dismisses both your statement and references.

Rossi is a liar.
I have shown this over and over, it is a "fact". And I haven't even had to use much of anything from October until present. And he has certainly continued to change claims since then in even bigger fashions.

Rossi changes his story more often than an a 12 year old.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Post by parallel »

Ladajo,
Rossi is a liar.
You are a liar. Or do you maintain you have never told a lie in your life?

ladajo
Posts: 6258
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

That is a silly question. You must be desperate.

Here, try this:

Rossi is a liar and a cheat. He seeks to further himself at the expense of others, and does so routinely with misrepresentations and lies. That also makes him a thief.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Betruger
Posts: 2321
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Post by Betruger »

parallel wrote:Ladajo,
Rossi is a liar.
You are a liar. Or do you maintain you have never told a lie in your life?
What a ludicrous comparison.
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6179
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

seedload wrote:
Axil wrote:Kiteman is wise as usual.
Says it all. The team has each others backs.

Parallel hears no one else's arguments. Kiteman sees every unlikely alternative scenario. Axil speaks the fantastic speculative extensions.
So, by your picture and your words, I am NOT that middle monkey. You say "I see" while the monkey has hands over eyes.

Oh, I get it, you are just confused. :D

I do find it interesting that I am being accused of trolling but no-one seems to slam folks like seedload for such (admittedly fumbled & facile) insults.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6179
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

rcain wrote: just how 'bent' does a person have to be Kite before you distrust them?
Are you TRULY this stupid or are you just baiting me?

What ever gave you the idea that I "trust" Rossi? Have I not said REPEATEDLY that I think he is very likely wrong, either due to delusion or dishonesty?

Have I not repeatedly asked for conclusive evidence one way or the other? To answer my rhetorical questions, YES, I HAVE. I ask every time someone makes a statement of fact regarding the issue. Ladajo has provided a fairly comprehensive listing of what he thinks are relevant statements by Rossi. My quick scan saw nothing conclusive. I still search. I suspect now that I am retired, I may sift thru ladajo's posts more thuroughly. Maybe there is something there I missed.

Isn't it interesting that the very act of asking for evidence from those who make such statements upsets certain folks so much that they start flaming me.

Bob doesn't belittle Fred because of what Fred has done to Bob, but because of what Bob has done to Fred that he is now trying to justify.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6179
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

ScottL wrote: Liar as a term is subjective. How many lies equates to a liar? How many truths negate that label? All rhetorical questions of course, but the truth is that we can't quantitatively give a definitive answer and Kite seems to thrive on that thought. Has Rossi lied? I believe so, but then I also believe as the more Rossi talks, the faster he approaches the label Liar.
This is an interesting arguement but for many it would lead to a null solution. Since "everybody lies" (gee are you channeling Greg House?) everyone is a liar and the term is meaningless. For my purposes a "liar" is someone who intentionally distorts the truth to violate another's right to voluntary action. Deflecting YOUR intrusion into my affairs with a statement that you may misapprehend is just good manners. The alternative is much nastier.
ScottL wrote:On a positive note, if ever found yourself on trial for anything, Kite would be a good juror to have as he'll never come to a definitive answer.
I think you would find yourself surprised. I most certainly CAN come to conclusions based on limited data, but only when I MUST. As a member of a jury, I am pretty sure I would understand that I must. But before you spring "ahah" and ask me to "imagine" I were a member of a jury... I am NOT, so that won't wring a "conclusion" out of me. :wink:

KitemanSA
Posts: 6179
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

polyill wrote:You've gone funny with your "Data please". You are like a broken robot or something.

Try to watch again the video of Rossi's demo for Krivit or any other interview with the man.
I guess you have done that at least once, hunting for data. Now do it again, a little different - don't put your attention to the "data" Rossi tries to relay to you in his sayings - nothing new there, but instead try to get an impression of the man.

What do you feel when you observe him and listen to the tone of his voice? Compare that impression to that of some other people (Bussard? Musk?)

Please, do share your results.
Seems that polyill (many-sick, now that is an interesting choise of moniker; are you sure YOU aren't the troll?) can't read, or maybe it is that tse can't retain what tse reads. I hve REPEATEDLY made statements about my OPINIONS regarding the man.

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