10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

stefanbanev wrote: Besides, it is quite unorthodox insight to set the dependency of likelihood of LENR from the mental abilities to see the coherency of proposed mechanisms behind... ;o)
I'll take you up on the challenge. Choose your LENR theory and we will see who understand it better, you or me.

The issue is that none of the theories explain all, or even most, of the observations. See above.

And a perhaps more important issue is that none of the theories are falsifiable because none make any predictions which are definite. I can't think of any, at any rate. Try to prove me wrong?

stefanbanev
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Post by stefanbanev »

tomclarke wrote:
stefanbanev wrote: Besides, it is quite unorthodox insight to set the dependency of likelihood of LENR from the mental abilities to see the coherency of proposed mechanisms behind... ;o)
I'll take you up on the challenge. Choose your LENR theory and we will see who understand it better, you or me.

The issue is that none of the theories explain all, or even most, of the observations. See above.

And a perhaps more important issue is that none of the theories are falsifiable because none make any predictions which are definite. I can't think of any, at any rate. Try to prove me wrong?
First of all I need to apologise for a little harsh joke I made, apparently I edited the original post after you "quote" it.

I do not think I'm technically up-to to compete with your technical expertise however, it does not invalidate the general points I've made. I'm curious if you have chance to read through this article:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1201.4377.pdf

Apparently these guys are more qualified opponents then me on the subject...

tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

stefanbanev wrote:
tomclarke wrote:
stefanbanev wrote: Besides, it is quite unorthodox insight to set the dependency of likelihood of LENR from the mental abilities to see the coherency of proposed mechanisms behind... ;o)
I'll take you up on the challenge. Choose your LENR theory and we will see who understand it better, you or me.

The issue is that none of the theories explain all, or even most, of the observations. See above.

And a perhaps more important issue is that none of the theories are falsifiable because none make any predictions which are definite. I can't think of any, at any rate. Try to prove me wrong?
First of all I need to apologise for a little harsh joke I made, apparently I edited the original post after you "quote" it.

I do not think I'm technically up-to to compete with your technical expertise however, it does not invalidate the general points I've made. I'm curious if you have chance to read through this article:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1201.4377.pdf

Apparently these guys are more qualified opponents then me on the subject...
Others are better qualified than me to look at this.

It is a formalism specifically motivated by wish to explain LENR as coupling between nuclear states and lattice phonons (and therefore nuclear kinetic energy). It an approximation to existing theory, not a new theory.

The problem with such coupling, which this does not address, is how there can be a nuclear transition with very high energy from electronic transitions at lower energy. This does not address that issue, and it does not appear to help.

But that does not mean it is useless, new models are always worth looking at, sometimes they give insight. In this case any insight relevant to LENR is not revealed in this paper. Hagelstein hints that he hopes there will be such a connection, that is all.

Carl White
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Post by Carl White »

An article from Wired Magazine:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... si-roundup

I found the note about the collaboration between DARPA and the Italian Department of Energy to be interesting.

Axil
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The NanoSpire system

Post by Axil »

http://www.pr.com/press-release/389652

and more to the point See:

http://www.nanospireinc.com/Fusion.html

Group, what is your opinion of the NanoSpire system?

The NanoSpire system uses an intense form of cavatation in various forms of industrial processes

I am interested in the O-H crystals that are produced in the NanoSpire system they call a van der waals crystal.
NanoSpire, Inc., discovered a crystalline form of water produced by cavitation, while investigating cavitation machining with the jets. Many of the jets were faceted and possessed tremendous electrostatic charge.
Instead, I believe this crystal is really a type of Rydberg crystal.

The intense electrostatic dipolar field produced by this crystal type may be able to mask the coulomb barrier thereby allowing transmutation of elements.

NanoSpire has done some R&D to characterize this central form and its description is very close to a two dimensional Rydberg crystal form.

I believe that Rydberg crystals are doing the same thing in the Rossi system.

The source of this electric field is the coherent and highly polarized Rydberg crystals that float near the surface of the nickel.

This dipole field is very powerful with a strength that can exceed 1,000,000,000,000 times the dipole strength of a hydrogen atom in the ground state.

This power is provided by a 1000 atom crystal at a principle quantum excitation number of 100.

Crawdaddy
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Re: The NanoSpire system

Post by Crawdaddy »

Axil wrote:
This dipole field is very powerful with a strength that can exceed 1,000,000,000,000 times the dipole strength of a hydrogen atom in the ground state.

This power is provided by a 1000 atom crystal at a principle quantum excitation number of 100.
The recent publication of the observation of huge dipole moments in rydberg excited elemental hydrogen made me think of you.

I will wait for more data before forming an opinion about how these observations apply to cold fusion.

stefanbanev
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Re: The NanoSpire system

Post by stefanbanev »

Axil wrote:http://www.pr.com/press-release/389652

and more to the point See:

http://www.nanospireinc.com/Fusion.html

Group, what is your opinion of the NanoSpire system?

The NanoSpire system uses an intense form of cavatation in various forms of industrial processes

I am interested in the O-H crystals that are produced in the NanoSpire system they call a van der waals crystal.
NanoSpire, Inc., discovered a crystalline form of water produced by cavitation, while investigating cavitation machining with the jets. Many of the jets were faceted and possessed tremendous electrostatic charge.
Instead, I believe this crystal is really a type of Rydberg crystal.

The intense electrostatic dipolar field produced by this crystal type may be able to mask the coulomb barrier thereby allowing transmutation of elements.

NanoSpire has done some R&D to characterize this central form and its description is very close to a two dimensional Rydberg crystal form.

I believe that Rydberg crystals are doing the same thing in the Rossi system.

The source of this electric field is the coherent and highly polarized Rydberg crystals that float near the surface of the nickel.

This dipole field is very powerful with a strength that can exceed 1,000,000,000,000 times the dipole strength of a hydrogen atom in the ground state.

This power is provided by a 1000 atom crystal at a principle quantum excitation number of 100.
>"the LeClair Effect theory and the profound discoveries based on it pose a serious quantum theory challenge to the classical understanding of Newton’s Laws of Motion and the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics."

It is quite suicidal to put such statement on one of front pages; if they are not smart enough to recognize it... well.... Even if this is the case such conclusion should indirectly follow from rationals. This story sounds as engineered BS...

tomclarke
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Re: The NanoSpire system

Post by tomclarke »

Axil wrote:http://www.pr.com/press-release/389652

and more to the point See:

http://www.nanospireinc.com/Fusion.html

Group, what is your opinion of the NanoSpire system?

The NanoSpire system uses an intense form of cavatation in various forms of industrial processes

I am interested in the O-H crystals that are produced in the NanoSpire system they call a van der waals crystal.
NanoSpire, Inc., discovered a crystalline form of water produced by cavitation, while investigating cavitation machining with the jets. Many of the jets were faceted and possessed tremendous electrostatic charge.
Instead, I believe this crystal is really a type of Rydberg crystal.

The intense electrostatic dipolar field produced by this crystal type may be able to mask the coulomb barrier thereby allowing transmutation of elements.

NanoSpire has done some R&D to characterize this central form and its description is very close to a two dimensional Rydberg crystal form.

I believe that Rydberg crystals are doing the same thing in the Rossi system.

The source of this electric field is the coherent and highly polarized Rydberg crystals that float near the surface of the nickel.

This dipole field is very powerful with a strength that can exceed 1,000,000,000,000 times the dipole strength of a hydrogen atom in the ground state.

This power is provided by a 1000 atom crystal at a principle quantum excitation number of 100.
Axil. your basic point here is that Rydberg matter can have very large dipole moments. True.

But if you understood the reason for it (very large inter-ionic distances) you would realise:

(a) Ni does not form such Rydberg matter except in v low density form at v low temperatures.

(b) the large dipole moments do not result in super-large electric fields such as would be needed to create nuclear-level energy electrons a la WL theory or mask the Coulomb barrier.

So this speculation is totally wrong.

As for nanospire I know nothing about them, but although water does produce many interesting forms, what they say sounds like rubbish too - just it is too vague to be sure.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

tomclarke wrote:
stefanbanev wrote: Besides, it is quite unorthodox insight to set the dependency of likelihood of LENR from the mental abilities to see the coherency of proposed mechanisms behind... ;o)
The issue is that none of the theories explain all, or even most, of the observations. See above.
The same can be said of superconductivity. So far, not theory covers all aspects. Perhaps there are a number of penomena that result in the same end (LENR), each requiring its own theory.

Axil
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Post by Axil »

(a) Ni does not form such Rydberg matter except in v low density form at v low temperatures.

In nature, these exotic crystals can be formed in many ways by many elements and compounds and at high temperatures in cooling plasma. Just because science uses cold temperature methods to study this stuff does not mean that nature does not find its own ways to make this material in many temperature regimes.


For example, there is a reputable theory that postulates that the red-orange plasma afterglow of a lightning bolt called ball lightning is Rydberg matter.

I believe that some forms of Rydberg hydrogen or H-O is produced by the extreme high pressures and temperatures occurring during cavatation. The intense ultraviolet radiation coming at or very near the end of bubble collapse in sonoluminescence is a clue that highly excited hydrogen gas is being generated.

As background, the Hydrogen atom can have a principal quantum number that ranges from 1 (the ground state) to 137 (infinity).

Highly excited molecular dissociated atomic Hydrogen atoms are called Rydberg atoms with one electron in a circular orbit having a very high principal quantum number.

These closely spaced far out high energy Rydberg states form what is commonly referred to as the Rydberg series.

High energy ultra violet waves are formed when an electron in an extreme Rydberg orbit falls all the way down to the low energy orbit close to the ground state.

The difference in the principal quantum number between the initial high energy state and the low energy final state defines the wavelength in the emitted photon.

When this principal quantum number difference is large and the orbital fall of the electron is great, the emitted photon is highly energetic and is found in the deep ultra violet wavelengths.

The presence of ultra violet photons from hydrogen spectral emissions is a sure indicator that a Rydberg atom was involved in this energetic reaction.

Any cooling plasma of hydrogen or other elements having an outer single s-orbital electron will produce Rydberg atoms.

Cavatation is extremely powerful. It can produce 5 nanometer diamonds from graphite feedstock in a few nanoseconds, it is likely that as the plasma produce by bubble collapse cools, Rydberg atoms form from the plasma.

In Rydberg material, the strength of the dipole field goes as the 7th power of the principle quantum number. In a nano-crystal of a 1000 atoms the dipole field is produced COHERENTLY as if by a single super atom.

These crystals have been produced experimentally up to 2000 atoms strong.

See http://arxiv.org/pdf/1103.2096v2.pdf

Image
A Rydberg Crystal

(b) the large dipole moments do not result in super-large electric fields such as would be needed to create nuclear-level energy electrons a la WL theory or mask the Coulomb barrier.
This is why the Nanospire experiments are important. They show that such exotic forms of matter exist at high temperatures and do exhibit strong dipole fields.

Mark LeClair has stated this in support of his fusion claims:
I would like to set the record straight and say that Steven Krivit, up to this point, was highly supportive of my discoveries. I’m surprised and disappointed that he would say that I was careless about the use of the word fusion. Steven allowed me to legally record the three hour long interview he had with me. In it, he repeatedly states his belief that I really accomplished what I claim, igniting fusion in ordinary water, with no heavy water or palladium required. As a highly accomplished fluid dynamicist who worked in the prestiguous Lockheed Missiles and Space Fluid Dynamics Group, I’m not afraid to say that my knowledge of physics and mathematics rivals anyone else in the field. At the tail end of the interview, Steven exclaims, “You did it, your really #%@ing did it!!!” We have been under attack from all quarters from those seeking to dicredit us and spread disinformation.

I will be glad to provide relevant excerpts from the transcript to protect my reputation and a full description of our work to a serious journalist, willing to showcase the tremendous discoveries I have made. Unlike Focardi and Rossi, I am willing to disclose all the details, so that it will be eventually understood and allow people to make up their own minds. I feel Steven Krivit owes me (and Serge) an apology for making such a pointless and untrue remark. I have complete confidence that the truth about the LeClair Effect will become known with time. We have the courage and the knowledge to stand up against all the detractors. We will never give up the fight.

Mark LeClair,
Nanospire

tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

Axil,

No-one is denying that hydrogen plasma can form Rydberg matter.

Coherent dipoles do not make sense: unless these are oscillating dipole moments.

The bottom line is field. Any field from dipole moment high enough to interact in nuclear reactions would destroy all matter in its vicinity.

I don't mind if you post psuedo-scientific stuff here as long as you make clear that it is speculation and you do not understand what is going on. Or post a reference which validates what you say.

The ref above is a theoretical exploration of the properties of rydberg solids in cold plasmas. It says explicitly that they most be cold, and gives the reason - the forces which bind Rydberg matter are much smaller than normal solid binding forces and therefore distrurbed by smaller thermal energies.

It does not justify any of the other stuff.

BTW Rydberg matter is fashionable - a new state etc. The only link I know with LENR is total speculation from Miley and Holmid that an inverted form of deuterium could be formed which is as dense (nearly) as a neutron star. He sees this has an inverted Rydberg state but the experimental evidence for this looks more flakey as he publishes followups, and theoretically it has no justification.
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/STAFF/VISIT ... PBsing.pdf
The point is that this ultra-dense D is totally incompatible with any of the other LENR speculations, including yours, because it (is claimed) only works for D. It is totally weird. But, no doubt, the keyword Rydberg matter will be googled and people start using the words as a mantra, extracting some properties in isolation and ignoring others.

parallel
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Post by parallel »

Obviously those who suggested a delay of several months in the Defkalion tests got it wrong.
Defkalion GT
Post subject: Test status (28-2-2012)
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:18 pm


Tests with the presence of high level Government officials have been concluded. Opinions and results were very positive.

Announcements will be made upon mutual agreements, at a time yet to be defined.

Tests continue with international Authorities in the coming weeks.

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Obviously those who suggested a delay of several months in the Defkalion tests got it wrong.
I will wait for the "announcements" before I put any value on the above post by Defkalion. So far this sounds like Rossi- speak.
Also I am looking forward to all the other tests with "international Authorities", whoever that may be.

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

parallel wrote:Obviously those who suggested a delay of several months in the Defkalion tests got it wrong.
Defkalion GT
Post subject: Test status (28-2-2012)
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:18 pm


Tests with the presence of high level Government officials have been concluded. Opinions and results were very positive.

Announcements will be made upon mutual agreements, at a time yet to be defined.

Tests continue with international Authorities in the coming weeks.
This sounds encouraging. Do you have a link. I thought DGT was off the air.

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

It was just a posting by DGT over at their website.

It is not encouraging that they are not more open. It , to some degree deflates the buildup spin they went on about. Open Testing, WebCams, protocols published, testers identified, etc...

The statement reads more like they have made a demo to some 'government' observers vice conducted an actual controlled test. Definitely some wiggle room in the wording.

But, we shall see.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

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