10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Postby ladajo » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:15 pm

Joseph Chikva wrote:
ladajo wrote:
Enginerd wrote:
Skipjack wrote:I think Toyota has transmutation, but no excess energy, right?


Toyota has indeed confirmed excess energy,
with replication by NASA and the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. :-)


Good one. Chuckle.
It is a little bit strange that you (the person who as I understand is/was responsible in exploitation of rather complex naval systems) giggle about technical reject which can happen in any system with probability proportionally to its complexity.
The heaviness of consequences of such failures is another question.
For example, should we giggle on Space Shuttle loss happened as result of one low-quality welding in rocket booster’s case?
This only once again testifies how labor-consuming is the way of maintaining of product from idea to the end-user - process usually called as "commercialization", the process in which there is not and cannot be any trifle.

For example, for me ironical smile is caused by a mention of such companies as Leonardo "Corporation" and Dekfalion. What background they have?
How they can commercialize the product if to assume for a second that is idea correct? Once again, take a look on Toyota's publication and Rossi's or Dekfalion's claims.


Joe,
I just thought it was a funny joke. Nothing more, nothing less. Outside of that, my limited (have not looked at it in any great detail) understanding is that the process is about transmutation, not about energy produced. And I think it takes energy to make it happen, vice gives it off in some fashion. But I can be completely wrong, as I just haven't really looked at it.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

paperburn1
Posts: 2454
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Postby paperburn1 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:41 pm

303 wrote:element transmutation confirmed by Toyota
http://indico.cern.ch/getFile.py/access ... fId=177379

so why does that link say Mitsubishi then?

Researchers from Toyota Central Research and Development Laboratories performed an independent replication of a Mitsubishi low-energy nuclear reaction transmutation experiment,

paperburn1
Posts: 2454
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Postby paperburn1 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:45 pm

plicated by Toyota. Osaka University and Iwate University previously reported similar replications.


MHI LENR transmutations: Na to Al, Ca to Ti, Sr to Mo, Cs to Pr, Ba to Sm and W to Os or Pt.

paperburn1
Posts: 2454
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:53 am
Location: Third rock from the sun.

Postby paperburn1 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:46 pm

paperburn1 wrote:plicated by Toyota. Osaka University and Iwate University previously reported similar replications.


MHI LENR transmutations: Na to Al, Ca to Ti, Sr to Mo, Cs to Pr, Ba to Sm and W to Os or Pt.

http://news.newenergytimes.net/2012/12/ ... plication/

Skipjack
Posts: 6045
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Postby Skipjack » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:20 pm

They may have replicated transmutation, but there is no indication anywhere that this is an exothermic reaction.

Joseph Chikva
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Postby Joseph Chikva » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:21 pm

ladajo wrote:Outside of that, my limited (have not looked at it in any great detail) understanding is that the process is about transmutation, not about energy produced. And I think it takes energy to make it happen, vice gives it off in some fashion. But I can be completely wrong, as I just haven't really looked at it.
No, you are likely correct. Those reactions are not exothermic in all probability.

303
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:18 am

Postby 303 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:15 pm

seems they push it over by 2, or 4 , or 6 in the table

perhaps try sticking that 112th in and see what turns out

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Postby KitemanSA » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:38 am

Joseph Chikva wrote:
ladajo wrote:Outside of that, my limited (have not looked at it in any great detail) understanding is that the process is about transmutation, not about energy produced. And I think it takes energy to make it happen, vice gives it off in some fashion. But I can be completely wrong, as I just haven't really looked at it.
No, you are likely correct. Those reactions are not exothermic in all probability.
Adding a deuterium to any of the lower mass atoms would indeed be exothermic. Without doing the math, I cannot be sure about any specific transmutation of the heavier ones, but in all likelihood, they would still be exothermic too. Not by much necessarily, but almost certainly by a bit.

Joseph Chikva
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Postby Joseph Chikva » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:47 am

KitemanSA wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote:
ladajo wrote:Outside of that, my limited (have not looked at it in any great detail) understanding is that the process is about transmutation, not about energy produced. And I think it takes energy to make it happen, vice gives it off in some fashion. But I can be completely wrong, as I just haven't really looked at it.
No, you are likely correct. Those reactions are not exothermic in all probability.
Adding a deuterium to any of the lower mass atoms would indeed be exothermic. Without doing the math, I cannot be sure about any specific transmutation of the heavier ones, but in all likelihood, they would still be exothermic too. Not by much necessarily, but almost certainly by a bit.
At least unlike Rossi Toyota/Mitsubishi do not claim exothermic reaction in their process.
What is "doing the math"? To add masses of two reactants and compare with addition of masses of products? What do you think, do they not can do such math? But they did not. Also they have an ability to measure the released heat (if that releeasing) much better than Rossi did in his demos/"experiments". That's easy. But, again, they did not.

Enginerd
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:29 am

Postby Enginerd » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:01 am

303 wrote:seems they push it over by 2, or 4 , or 6 in the table


Whether or not they produce or consume energy, if they can develop this into an industrial process capable of producing commercial quantities of platinum (or perhaps gold), they will have a killer application of LENR on their hands. Both elements are exceedingly rare yet have major industrial applications that are limited by scarcity.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
--Philip K. Dick

303
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:18 am

Postby 303 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:51 pm

well, if the 2/4/6 thing holds then 72(hf),74(w) & 76(os) for platinum
73(ta), 75(re) & 77(ir) for gold

dunno who did the naming of this table, guy was an idiot if they thought Au is a memorable shorthand for gold!

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Postby KitemanSA » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:15 pm

303 wrote:dunno who did the naming of this table, guy was an idiot if they thought Au is a memorable shorthand for gold!
Wouldn't be so idiotic if we still called it by its Latin name, aurum, like the educated folk of yesteryear did.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6114
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Postby KitemanSA » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:19 pm

Joseph Chikva wrote: At least unlike Rossi Toyota/Mitsubishi do not claim exothermic reaction in their process.
What is "doing the math"? To add masses of two reactants and compare with addition of masses of products? What do you think, do they not can do such math? But they did not. Also they have an ability to measure the released heat (if that releeasing) much better than Rossi did in his demos/"experiments". That's easy. But, again, they did not.
Maybe they did but did not report it to avoid wholesale attacks by ijuts like you. Maybe they knew that their intended audience would just know that fact and not NEED to be told, unlike ijuts like you.

Then again, maybe they just didn't care.

Joseph Chikva
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Postby Joseph Chikva » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:45 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote: At least unlike Rossi Toyota/Mitsubishi do not claim exothermic reaction in their process.
What is "doing the math"? To add masses of two reactants and compare with addition of masses of products? What do you think, do they not can do such math? But they did not. Also they have an ability to measure the released heat (if that releeasing) much better than Rossi did in his demos/"experiments". That's easy. But, again, they did not.
Maybe they did but did not report it to avoid wholesale attacks by ijuts like you. Maybe they knew that their intended audience would just know that fact and not NEED to be told, unlike ijuts like you.

Then again, maybe they just didn't care.
And maybe and more likely that transmutation occur very seldom - e.g. 1000 events per one experiment. And what is "intended audience" would in that case? Do you think that such "smart people" like you?
As I am sure that till now those reactions have only academic interest.

parallel
Posts: 1131
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Postby parallel » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:16 pm

Andrea Rossi
December 13th, 2012 at 8:58 AM

Dear Pietro F.:
Now I can say that the third party tests will finish on Dec. 16th.
I have been informed of this fact few minutes ago.
Warm Regards,
A.R.


Andrea Rossi
December 13th, 2012 at 6:05 AM

Dear Mark Saker:
Merry Christmas to you and to all our Readers.
By Christmas will be completed surely the third party evaluation tests.
The final work is going on in these days.
As for the 1 MW plant of the Hot Cat we are on schedule to complete the plant in February.
Warm Regards,
A.R.


Return to “News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 7 guests