10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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ScottL
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Post by ScottL »

KitemanSA wrote:Seems the format didn't work.
Impatient. Check again. Just to clarify since you pretty much called me a liar... My above post states that YES he is a convicted criminal and while some of his sentences were suspended, not all were, and he served time.

Conclusions:
•Rossi was convicted for fraud related to building a factory in southern Italy (apparently trying to claim earthquake-related subsidies).
•Rossi was convicted of dumping toxic waste, as well as conspiracy and tax fraud, along with a number of others. Parts of this conviction were eventually overturned. It's not clear whether this included the conspiracy and tax fraud, or just the dumping.
•There was never any indication that Rossi was actually converting waste into oil. It appears that this was a scam to launder money. The waste was simply stored and eventually dumped.
•Rossi was convicted of fraud related to shipping gold internationally. This had nothing to do with his convictions related to Petrol Dragon. Apparently, Rossi had a thriving jewelery business while he was committing the gold shipping fraud.
•Rossi was convicted of fraud related to the bankruptcy of a company that was involved with Petrol Dragon. This resulted in an 8 year jail sentence.

After that, Rossi appears to drop off the radar in the Italian press until he shows up with his E-Cat.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Unless you have missed some subsequent reports, then it seems he has been convicted. Thanks for the data.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Oh, and please add the references into Rossi's Wikipedia page.

Stubby
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Post by Stubby »

He has seen the light. Amen. :)

attaboy ScottL
Last edited by Stubby on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

So it certainly seems that we are back to Rossi being a demonstrated fraud and liar.

As for the BRC report, if you really read it, you would see where the BRC Investigator quotes Rossi on "I have no US Factories, I have no US E-cats". Which is the exact opposite to what he was claiming in his blog posts, and is what prompted the BRC visit in the first place.

Kite, when will you admit Rossi is a liar? Does he need to lie to you directly?

BTW, the Army reporting on their adventure paints Rossi as a scam. Give it a read, it is an entertaining exercise is army ass covering after Rossi screwed them and they knew it.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

ScottL
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Post by ScottL »

KitemanSA wrote:Unless you have missed some subsequent reports, then it seems he has been convicted. Thanks for the data.
I honestly must thank you Kite, without you, I'd have never done the due diligence on this subject. Also, formatting on this forum sucks balls and took a while to get right. I don't mean any ill will and I honestly hoped Rossi's original claim would be properly investigated, but once enough doubts were brought to the surface, I had to call it how I felt it. I think we all desire to see the energy problem solved in a simple, yet meaningful way, each person with their own observational approach. Rossi's claimed solution is just one I cannot get behind.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

ladajo wrote:BTW, the Army reporting on their adventure paints Rossi as a scam. Give it a read, it is an entertaining exercise is army ass covering after Rossi screwed them and they knew it.
Link?

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

ladajo wrote:.Kite, when will you admit Rossi is a liar? Does he need to lie to you directly?
I have always accepted the trivial condition in that everyone has lied about something at some time. The issue was always has he lied about this?

ScottL's data indicate that ScottL was not lying about Rossi being a convicted lawbreaker. This looks bad for Rossi and raises the likelihood that he has lied about the e-cat.

I'll try to find the BRC report and check out your "quotes". I checked your quotes. You are lying. Those quotes do not appear anywhere in the BRC report. :wink:

The report acknowledges that the BRC had no jurisdiction. Given that, I would suspect that any comments might be a bit lackadaisical. It does say, not as a quote from Rossi but as a statement by the investigator after an interview on 29 Feb, 2012, that "Currently all production..." [[emphasis added]] Now by 2012 the first 1MW unit had been completed. Does anyone have a detailed enough timeline to know whether Rossi was claiming ongoing manufacturing in the US on that date, or even reasonably NEAR that date? Not the setting up of automated factories, not the "we have factories in..." but "we are making items now for our next order" type of statement.

ScottL
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Post by ScottL »

If I remember correctly it went something like:

1. Rossi makes claim of production in Florida at as of yet unknown factory.
2. Guy reports Rossi to BRC due to above claim and previous dicussion of gamma release.
3. BRC investigates where Rossi says they are not producing any units in Florida.

I'll try to follow up if noone has by tomorrow.

Stubby
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Post by Stubby »

The investor talked to the owner and found all production, distribution and use of these devices are overseas; therefore no action is required
Page 1 of BRC report dated 9 Mar 2012 for incident investigation of 24 Feb 2012


Cause(s) of incident
A report that Mr Rossi was manufacturing and distributing 1MW cold fusion reactors from postings on the Internet
Page 2 of the report
Everything is bullshit unless proven otherwise. -A.C. Beddoe

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

KitemanSA wrote:
ladajo wrote:BTW, the Army reporting on their adventure paints Rossi as a scam. Give it a read, it is an entertaining exercise is army ass covering after Rossi screwed them and they knew it.
Link?
Try DTIC. It is there. I have linked it before for you.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

seedload
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Post by seedload »

KitemanSA wrote:
seedload wrote:He, and apparently you, are incapable of understanding that hundreds of probable lies are basically the same as one definite one.
No, they are not. And another thing you seem to ignore is that your feelings about the slime ball (personal opinion, not fact) does not lend "probability" to the situation. Your pre-judgment makes YOUR opinion about the probability of his lying have ZERO weight. We KNOW your judgement is impaired.
I didn't pre-judge anything. In fact, I didn't comment on Rossi until approximately 60 pages into the original thread. When I first did, it was only when Rossi began to claim cheap isotopic enrichment, which I judged (not pre-judged) to be an unlikely companion revolutionary invention that was necessary to explain his previous inconsistent isotopic claims. It was all a perfectly reasonable judgement based on an apparently unreasonable claim. Even then, I acknowledged that what he claimed was possible. See page 58 of the original thread if you don't believe me that I was initially acknowledging the potential for Rossi to be legit.

My judgement has changed over time, from believing what Rossi claimed to be unlikely but possible, to believing the likeliness of what Rossi claims to be approaching zero. This swing in my judgement is based on accumulated gaffs and blunders by Rossi himself as discussed numerous times on this thread. It is not based on pre-judgement but on judgement.

Basically, my judgement leads me to believe that lots of apparent lies probably amount to a lie. Simple.

Judgement often has little to do with fact. There are lots of people who can make very good judgments using incomplete information. Everything doesn't need to be considered as either fact or inadmissible. Judgement isn't about black and white. Actually, in my opinion, your compulsion to need to classify everything as fact or not fact, with everything that is not a fact being thrown away as meaningless, is actually an indictment of your ability to make good judgments.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

ladajo
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Post by ladajo »

KitemanSA wrote:
ladajo wrote:.Kite, when will you admit Rossi is a liar? Does he need to lie to you directly?
I have always accepted the trivial condition in that everyone has lied about something at some time. The issue was always has he lied about this?

ScottL's data indicate that ScottL was not lying about Rossi being a convicted lawbreaker. This looks bad for Rossi and raises the likelihood that he has lied about the e-cat.

I'll try to find the BRC report and check out your "quotes". I checked your quotes. You are lying. Those quotes do not appear anywhere in the BRC report. :wink:

The report acknowledges that the BRC had no jurisdiction. Given that, I would suspect that any comments might be a bit lackadaisical. It does say, not as a quote from Rossi but as a statement by the investigator after an interview on 29 Feb, 2012, that "Currently all production..." [[emphasis added]] Now by 2012 the first 1MW unit had been completed. Does anyone have a detailed enough timeline to know whether Rossi was claiming ongoing manufacturing in the US on that date, or even reasonably NEAR that date? Not the setting up of automated factories, not the "we have factories in..." but "we are making items now for our next order" type of statement.
Yes Kite, you can assume all you want. Suerly you can assume that the investigator for Florida BRC was being lackadaisical when he interviewed Rossi about Rossi's claimed doings. And certainly he later retained this same approach once he determined that given Rossi's explaination that Rossi was doing nothing in the US with E-Cat, and that Rossi told him that there was no nulcear reactions or radiation being produced either, that it was then out of Florida BRC's purview as it was a.) Whatever was going on was not in Florida or the US, and b.) not nuclear and no radiation was produced.
Yes surely you are correct to blanketly assume that the Investigator entered the entered the enitire topic with a non-caring attitude, and then complted his task and report in the same manner. Absolutely fair to paint it as a lacadaisical event. Not.

I never said it had a Rossiquote. I said/meant that the investigator quotes Rossi in his findings by saying Rossi told him that there was no US Factories or E-Cats and if you had actually read it and paid attention this have already been clear to you. You can play word lawyer all day long, and all it does is make you look more silly each time. You are better than that.

As for timelines, there are plenty of detailed timelines available. They have been referenced to you a number of times. Go find it yourself. Stop treating folks like your designated spoonfeeders.

You have painted yourself into a corner that you no longer have any validity to argue the Rossi topic by your continued lacadaisical approach. You have repeatedly falied to actually look at reference material and demand of others too spoon feed it to you case by case so you can try to refute single line items out of context point by point. They have provided you info, you ignore it, and then return to the same silly points, in the end toying with folks to get them to post you links again and again.

Unless you show some real effort, your future comments on this topic will be ignored by me.

Rossi is a documented repetative liar and fraud. he has continued to lie and fraud with E-Cat. There is clear evidence he has done so, and it has been presented.

Rossi:
I have Factories/I do not have Factories.
I have customers and sold E-Cats/This is the first sale
I have sold mulitple 1MW E-Cats to the "military" (and later claimed as the US Military)/There is no record anywhere of this.
There is radiation/There is no radiation.
And so on...

Do your part, stop trolling for free food. Forward leaning my ass. Stop digging your hole. Climb out. There is no point in staying.
And if you want wikipedia updated, do it yourself. You are the one who contested the reality over and over.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Kahuna
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Location: CA

Post by Kahuna »

Some news on "Successful" Celani LENR replication by third-party:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/12/celan ... plication/

Of course this is furnished by Celani, but the Hunt Utilities Group (HUG) seems to have known about it. There is a good deal of web-buzz about who the third-party is and I suspect that will come out shortly. There are others (including HUG) working on this as well. The COP here seems quite low making the experiments very susceptible to setup and measurement issues so the experimenters need to be careful IMO.

The 3rd party is reportedly STMicroelectronics

http://www.st.com/internet/com/about_st ... mation.jsp
Last edited by Kahuna on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

ladajo wrote:Rossi:
I have Factories/I do not have Factories.
Again, here you are attributing to Rossi two sets of opposing statements, only one of which I can find any indication he has made. Since this pair, where I have detected your prevarication before, seems typical, even formulaic, for the others, why should I lend any credence to any of them? They will likely turn out to be the same misstatements as this.

You made the statements. You were caught in a miss-statement on one. Why should I look thru the long history trying to prove he DIDN'T say something when you should have at you fingertips were he DID. You made the statement. You back it up.

Heck, ScottL made a statement I believed to be wrong, but he was able to back it up. Thank you ScottL. Rossi did in fact run afoul of the Italian "justice system". He does appear to have a number of convictions. One day I may read thru the very nice list he provided to see if he did anything wrong, of just illegal. I won't take the time to look for possible acquittals for them since I suspect Rossi would have made sure they were well known.

You made many statements I believe to be wrong. Please back them up. Or are you just relying on the "big lie" phenomenon to tide you thru?

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