10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:34 am

GIThruster wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:Edison, America's most prolific inventor EVER had what, 3(?) years of schooling. Obviously he was a fraud.

The mill diploma COULD just mean he was poorly advised.
That's nonsense. This has nothing to do with people who did not earn normal degrees throughout history. It is ONLY concerned with people who paid for fraudulent sheepskins they did not earn so they could pretend that they did. In all cases, people who did this are frauds and should under no conditions be trusted. Find us a single counter-example in all of history of someone defrauding others in this manner who had something worthwhile to shop around.

At one time, a number of reputable universities offered PhDs for "life experience" after payment of a processing fee. The advent of diploma mills ruined that for everyone.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:22 am

No. You're talking about "honorary" degrees. There is no processing fee and some universities still do this.

No one takes an honorary degree seriously. It's a gimmick meant to show support for political reasons and has nothing to do with purchasing a degree from a diploma mill and misrepresenting oneself like Rossi has done.

Aero · Post by **Aero** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:10 am

Hmmm ... I guess that means that he isn't atuned to the world as it is. I mean, if he was intending to purchase a diploma why didn't he purchase a doctorate in physics? You think maybe a BS in chemistry is easier to justify?

parallel · Post by **parallel** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:14 am

GIThruster,

What I want to know is, why should anyone ever take the word of a person who would pay for a phony diploma, purchased specifically in order to misrepresent himself? Isn't it obvious we're here dealing with a man who is a deceitful person?

You don't really want to know, you just want attention. I feel sorry for you. Rossi's degrees have been covered earlier in some detail. His degree from Milan U. was in physics and chemistry with a course leading to a PhD. Italians say that it is generally recognized as an engineering degree. He took a cheap course in chemical engineering presumably because he wanted to learn more of that subject, not because he wanted another piece of paper. Sounds a cost effective way to me.

I care very little about what pieces of parchment he has, I'm more interested in what he does. Apparently a lot more than most on this blog.

Teemu, like you, missed the point of what I wrote. You earlier went on about Rossi not having a theory as if that was essential before making a new discovery. You're bonkers.

Axil · Post by **Axil** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:30 am

parallel wrote: I care very little about what pieces of parchment he has, I'm more interested in what he does. Apparently a lot more than most on this blog.

Teemu, like you, missed the point of what I wrote. You earlier went on about Rossi not having a theory as if that was essential before making a new discovery. You're bonkers.

Recently, after reading a book about the Garfield assassination, I was struck by the parallels to how President James Garfield received atrocious medical care after he was shot on July 2, 1881 to the current cold fusion dilemma.

It’s all about intellectual arrogance and how destructive that cardinal vice can be.

Garfield would have easily survived the bullet, but died weeks later from infection after being exposed to gross medical malpractice from the best doctors of that time. Most American doctors of that period dismissed the "germ theory" pioneered by non-American scientists, such as British doctor Joseph Lister.

The arrogance of American physicians of that day and their disrespect of the work of foreign scientists resulted in their rejection of modern surgical sterile techniques that had been well-established in Europe.

It was an early edition of the intellectual arrogance and the prejudice of "American exceptionalism," the belief that America and Americans were inherently superior, even divinely exalted.

Because they couldn’t see them, American doctors ridiculed belief in bacteria, comparing it to the silly, contemporary belief in fairies.

Doctors even took pride in their filth, carrying blood, pus, and dirt from one patient to the next. In 1881 American country doctors were still applying hot cow manure to open wounds. The doctors treating Garfield routinely performed surgery in their practices without changing their clothes or washing their hands and held instruments in their teeth for convenience.

Much like the Garfield assassination, arrogance of the critics of Italian and Greek developed Cold Fusion have closed their minds to its possibility.

Our current response to the "fever" and "infection" spreading through the American scientific community is to allow the most ignorant and disingenuous of us to bully the rest of us to inaction and disbelief. The level of scientific sophistication of this reactionary group are applying to the task is on a par with Garfield’s doctors in 1881. You can’t see chemically induced nuclear reactions; therefore it must not be happening. But transmutation of elements is natural and is happening all the time in the world around us, in the same way that bacteria are all pervasive. Therefore, linking nuclear chemical reactions to cold fusion must be a hoax.

The embrace of American exceptionalism in its entrenched scientific community, including academic, corporate, and governmental groups have only grown since Garfield’s time, permeating our general discourse, common opinion, culture and politics. American scientific entitlement and perceived superiority is the red flag being waved and the idea that American science is not bound by either the laws of nature or conciliation with work done in other nations is in full bloom in the American energy development plan.

Dancing to the tune of its energy-billionaire corporate backers, the American science establishment panders to our basest and most selfish instincts, luring us to utterly surrender our energy future to fossil fuels.

As with the arrogant and ignorant doctors in 1881, established science is committing malpractice in the extreme, as primitive, as scientifically offensive, and ultimately as lethal as putting hot cow manure on our open wounds.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:09 am

parallel wrote:Rossi's degrees have been covered earlier in some detail. His degree from Milan U. was in physics and chemistry with a course leading to a PhD.

You are grossly and deliberately mischaracterizing the issue. This is deeply disappointing since I have been one of your strongest advocates in the past. Your attacks on me simply for asking the question are completely unwarranted.

Rossi's physics course leads to a PhD in the same way Kindergarden leads to a PhD. You're making an empty claim here. I am the one who originally brought up Rossi's fraudulent educational claims and there has never been an adequate answer to this. He's a fraud. And there is no doubt, Rossi did not just sign up for some coarse work at a cheap institution. He paid for a fraudulent degree he did not earn. There is no changing this despite your manipulations and specious polemics. Kennsington was closed for good reasons. How can you maintain Rossi is guilty of no more than thrifty educational expenses?

You've lost the last of your common sense but I guess we'll see in 2 weeks, now won't we?

Teemu · Post by **Teemu** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:14 am

So Rossi had this breakthrough thermoelectric device, first conducted some lackluster demonstrations with supposedly impressive numbers, then a NH factory fire supposedly destroyed his capacity to make these devices and the devices after produced less than 1 watt instead of the expected 1k watt.

http://dodfuelcell.cecer.army.mil/libra ... (2004).pdf

Not to mention Petroldragon scam, gold smuggling etc.

LTI was incorporated as a response to the thermoelectric power generation research by Dr. Andre Rossi. Dr. Rossi indicated that his devices would produce 20 percent efficiencies, a vast increase from the current science of 4 percent conversion of waste heat to electrical power. Dr. Rossi believed that he could increase the physical size of the TE Devices and maintain superior power generation. In furtherance of his research, in early 2000, LTI had tests conducted at the University of New Hampshire (UNH), Durham, NH, using a small scale LTI TE Device. Over a period of 7 days, the UNH power plant staff recorded voltage and amperage readings every 1/2 hr. The TE Device produced approximately 100 volts and 1 ampere of current, providing 100 watts of power. After this initial success, and a fire that destroyed his Manchester, NH location, Dr. Rossi returned to Italy to continue the manufacture of the TE Devices. In Italy, Dr. Rossi believed that LTI could manufacture more cost-effective TE generating devices with lower labor and assembly costs. Accordingly, Dr. Rossi engaged a subcontractor to fulfill the requirements of manufacturing and assembly.

Unfortunately, the Italian subcontractor was unable to provide secondgeneration TE Devices with satisfactory power generation. Nineteen of 27 TE Devices shipped to CTC, Johnstown, PA, were incapable of generating electricity for a variety of reasons, from mechanical failure to poor workmanship. The remaining eight produced less than 1 watt of power each, significantly less than the expected 800–1000 watts each.

Mention examples of science history when a scammer has contributed anything to the science.

Axil · Post by **Axil** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:16 am

Certain people can transcend the requirements of formal education. These fellows include Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Tomas Edison; each an instinctual inventor and maverick.

Rossi may be one of these guys. Rossi may have needed some credentials to do work for the Government and he may have padded his resume to qualify.

How can his actions be judged against the wall street crowd and greedy investment bankers who have destroyed so many lives having secretly padded their off shore accounts tax free and still walk freely among us; nay more like driving in their Bentleys on our public streets to their car elevators in their seaside garages?

Who will sanctify these sins with fire at the stake?

Look into your own resume and objectively judge its contents against reality. Any exaggerations found, or misrepresentations?

How much resume padding is a mortal sin and how much is venial?

Who is to judge? Who will throw the first stone for who is without sin?

If Rossi can do the job like the others mentioned above, then is he forgiven his sins or cast into hell without repentance and forever dammed?

Is there redemption? Only time will judge and soon, sitting at the right hand of history.

Teemu · Post by **Teemu** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:03 am

Aero wrote:Hmmm ... I guess that means that he isn't atuned to the world as it is. I mean, if he was intending to purchase a diploma why didn't he purchase a doctorate in physics? You think maybe a BS in chemistry is easier to justify?

He started his first scam Petroldragon, in the late 70es, so him getting Chemistry degree at that time for those purposes wasn't that surprising.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:16 pm

GIThruster wrote:No. You're talking about "honorary" degrees. There is no processing fee and some universities still do this.

No one takes an honorary degree seriously. It's a gimmick meant to show support for political reasons and has nothing to do with purchasing a degree from a diploma mill and misrepresenting oneself like Rossi has done.

No, I am not referring to "honorary" degrees. At the time, if he had asked, I am pretty sure that Princeton would have given "the wizard of Menlo Park" a PhD in one of the sciences, just based on his proven track record.

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:18 pm

GIThruster wrote:...but I guess we'll see in 2 weeks, now won't we?

I really doubt we will. Rossi may have something, but he has made many, many promises in the past that have either not been fulfilled or have been unconvincing. Why would we think this will be any different?

He may be buying time, trolling for dollars, dispiriting the competition (or trying to) or who knows what. Convincing third-party results are very unlikely IMO.

It is all very entertaining and, if fact, will have such an impact that it is worth watching even if the probabilities are not that high.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:10 pm

His degree from Milan U. was in physics and chemistry with a course leading to a PhD. Italians say that it is generally recognized as an engineering degree. He took a cheap course in chemical engineering presumably because he wanted to learn more of that subject, not because he wanted another piece of paper.

Once again you demonstrate complete faith and ignorance in what you speak.

Point One: You are Wrong
Point Two: You are Wrong (again)

Enough with the Rossiligeon. The man is full of shyte, continually.
Show me a real Ecat, sold, paid for, installed and operating as claimed.
Oh, what's that? There are none you can show. But surely after all the claims of sold and operating units for the past couple of years, there must be one. What about the one he claimed would provide public access? Oh, not that one either?

Rossiworld Turns. Again.

Teemu · Post by **Teemu** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:30 pm

Axil wrote: How can his actions be judged against the wall street crowd and greedy investment bankers who have destroyed so many lives having secretly padded their off shore accounts tax free and still walk freely among us; nay more like driving in their Bentleys on our public streets to their car elevators in their seaside garages?

So because there are financial scammers on the Wall Street, we are supposed to give a pass for Rossi for already perpetrating 2 energy tech scams? (Petroldragon, Thermoelectric device)

That makes sense, not.

After 2 scams, at least we have right to demand a solid, independent demonstration.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:58 pm

KitemanSA wrote:No, I am not referring to "honorary" degrees. At the time, if he had asked, I am pretty sure that Princeton would have given "the wizard of Menlo Park" a PhD in one of the sciences, just based on his proven track record.

If a degree is given (as opposed to awarded), it is honorary. You're not making any sort of case that real institutions of higher learning have ever distributed unearned degrees for pay. This fraudulent behavior is limited exclusively scams and has no history in real educational institutions.

ScottL · Post by **ScottL** » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:18 pm

Axil wrote:Certain people can transcend the requirements of formal education. These fellows include Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Tomas Edison; each an instinctual inventor and maverick.

Rossi may be one of these guys. Rossi may have needed some credentials to do work for the Government and he may have padded his resume to qualify.

How can his actions be judged against the wall street crowd and greedy investment bankers who have destroyed so many lives having secretly padded their off shore accounts tax free and still walk freely among us; nay more like driving in their Bentleys on our public streets to their car elevators in their seaside garages?

Who will sanctify these sins with fire at the stake?

Look into your own resume and objectively judge its contents against reality. Any exaggerations found, or misrepresentations?

How much resume padding is a mortal sin and how much is venial?

Who is to judge? Who will throw the first stone for who is without sin?

If Rossi can do the job like the others mentioned above, then is he forgiven his sins or cast into hell without repentance and forever dammed?

Is there redemption? Only time will judge and soon, sitting at the right hand of history.

Bzzzzt wrong. Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard while studying and at the forefront of a new industry. He wasn't some genius, he got lucky both in timing and in entitlement (he wasn't a poor college student.) Steve Jobs was a moron who relied on others (The Woz) to build is "vision" while he was busy tripping balls on LSD. He was forced out of his own company and only brough back well after he'd cleaned himself up. Edison, well he tried what 2000 times for the right filament, trial and error I'd say. Sure these people accomplished success in a financial understanding, but really they stood on the shoulders of the true innovators and creators, taking credit all the way.