10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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TallDave
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Post by TallDave »

Hmm, NI seems to be deeper into LENR than I had realized:
tarting Monday, August 6, National Instruments holds its annual NIWeek conference where workshops, presentations and exhibitions are held about topics connected with NI’s work in developing hardware and software used for measurement and control in science and engineering.
...
On Tuesday, August 7th there will be a 1 hour panel discussion entitled, “The Quest for Alternative Energy—Anomalous Heat Effect (a.k.a. Cold Fusion)” featuring panelists Akito Takahashi of Technova Inc., Andrea Aparo of Ansaldo Energia, Michael McKubre of SRI International, Robert Duncan of the University of Missouri, and Robert Godes of Brillouin.

On Wednesday, August 8th there will be a 30 minute presentation on “The Status of CMNS/CF/LENR Research at Kobe-Technova” by Akito Takahashi of Technova Inc.

Also on Wednesday there will be a 30 minute session on “The Commercialization of LENR Technology’ by Robert Godes of Brillouin Energy.

A Big Physics and Science Poster Session will be held on August 8th which will “review the technical papers, projects, and research work of scientists and engineers from different labs and commercial companies.” Among the presenters at this session will be Alexandros Xanthoulis, George Xanthoulis, James Dunn, John Hadjichristos and Symeon Tsalikoglou of Defkalion Green Technologies; Francesco Celani of INFN; Peter Hagelstein of MIT; and Frank Gordon retired of SPAWAR.

For people following LENR, it is quite unusual to have so many presentations held on cold fusion in the context of a large conference covering many non-controversial scientific topics.
NI does seem to be leading a bit of an effort at mainstreaming LENR, enough so that there will be egg on someone's face if the whole thing fizzles. Doesn't prove anything, of course, but interesting...
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

Axil
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Post by Axil »

The Rossi reactor is already obsolete.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 7wZqDQ7Pjg

This video shows the Papp engine under a dynamometer test with narration and introduction by Jimmy Sabori.

A high efficiency linear generator can be integrated into the design of the papp engine to convert the reciprocating motion of the piston into maximum electric power. This free-piston engine/generator combination has maximum high efficiency and reliability when converting motion to electric power because of the absence of the mechanical devices like a dedicated generator crankshaft, connecting rod, etc. The linear generator concept plays a very important role in this free-piston engine hybrid system to realize an unparalleled high efficient electric power production approach.

This concept is best for transportation, or electric production at home or office when coupled with a generator. It can be instantly started or stopped based on demand whereas the Rossi reactor takes one hour to start or stop. This leaves the Rossi type reactor to best serve the very limited high process heat specialty industrial market.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... NoxQDS3LlU

The video above is a demo of the reaction inside the cylinder of the papp engine. You will note the formation of ball lightning inside the transparent cylinder as the noble gas explodes. IMHO, this marks the formation of Rydberg mater with mediates the intense electron shielding that reduces the coulomb barrier of the noble gases to the point of fusion.


Cheers: Axil

ScottL
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Post by ScottL »

The same Josef Papp notorious for hoaxing a submarine sinking? Who managed to kill a man via this same "engine" when it exploded. Who patented his engine and gas mixture, then claimed to have never let known the secret mixture of inert gases?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Papp
The engine continues to be considered by many scientists as a hoax. Papp's poor physics theoretic background is demonstrated in the abstracts of the patents which have been criticized by Richard Feynman. Mr. Papp presented to an audience, including Feynman, an ill-fated demonstration in 1966, in which his engine exploded, killing one man and seriously injuring two others.

Axil
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Post by Axil »

ScottL wrote:The same Josef Papp notorious for hoaxing a submarine sinking? Who managed to kill a man via this same "engine" when it exploded. Who patented his engine and gas mixture, then claimed to have never let known the secret mixture of inert gases?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Papp
The engine continues to be considered by many scientists as a hoax. Papp's poor physics theoretic background is demonstrated in the abstracts of the patents which have been criticized by Richard Feynman. Mr. Papp presented to an audience, including Feynman, an ill-fated demonstration in 1966, in which his engine exploded, killing one man and seriously injuring two others.

Papp was a nut much like Rossi, but you can believe wikipedia or your own lying eyes if you indeed did watched the dyno video.

Teemu
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Post by Teemu »

1989 newspaper article
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle.html
The next call was from a Jimmy Sabori. "Forget those guys in Utah," he said. "All they have is a glass of water. We have an engine." I found Jimmy Sabori and his brother Jake in a gray warehouse in a corner of downtown San Jose. Tacked to the wall was a detailed blueprint labeled "Joseph Papp Thermonuclear Plasma Engine."

Over lunch they tried to explain the engine's principle and spun a tangled tale of intrigues, kidnapping, Navy tests, greedy partners and lawsuits. So could I see this engine run? Well, it was in Florida. It was out of fuel right now, and that's why they'd called me: They needed someone to put up $50,000 or so to make the fuel for a proper demonstration. But I could take a videotape home and watch it.
Yeah right

French military authorities found Papp bobbing in a rubber raft off Brest, babbling about having crossed the ocean in eight hours.

Papp was the toast of two continents--until his story started falling apart. A man looking like Joseph Papp, and using his passport, had flown from Montreal to Paris the night Papp had disappeared. A Paris-to-Brest train ticket was in Papp's pocket when he was found.
He put down $100,000 for a license to put Papp's engines in his cars. It was to be the first of many $100,000 checks he wrote, on the behalf of himself and other Nebraska investors, who called themselves Energy Executives.

Energy Executives was given shares in a new corporation called Papp International, or rights to use the company's future engine in some application--irrigation pumps, trucks, cars. But because Papp owned 82 percent of the corporation, owning a share usually meant you had sent a check to him, to do with as he pleased.

Papp used the first Energy Executives check to buy a fine house in Santa Ana: two stories, four bedrooms, a swimming pool.

Then he left for six months in South Africa. His translator said Papp signed a corporation's $500 million contract--but then reneged, complaining that he didn't want to be under its control.

When Papp returned, the investors started shelling out more cash: for the parts to build six new, two-cylinder engines; for a secure fuel lab in a separate town under a different name; for a house-hunting trip to Florida when Papp decided to move; for the $350,000 Daytona Beach home itself; for a new Cadillac; for vacations to China and Hungary; for the patent lawyers' bills
Somehow Papp could never be persuaded to give the engine up for an independent test.
I wonder why :roll:

You can't really prove that it works with a under 10 minute video of the engine and of some under 5 minute video of some piston demonstration, where you really can't know what is going on, what fuel is used etc.

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

Krivit reports on the NI LENR Conference currently going on in Austin:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/08/ ... struments/
Francesco Celani, a physicist with the Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics in Frascati, Italy, brought a LENR device he developed that uses hydrogen gas and a specially treated nickel wire. The concept was pioneered by another Italian, Francesco Piantelli, in the 1990s. Celani’s demonstration shows that the nickel-hydrogen gas system is robust and predicable and that it demonstrates the leading edge of LENR research.
“As soon as we applied the electrical power to the internal nichrome-wire heater (48 Watts DC), we began to see excess heat. There was no incubation period. Celani has eight thermocouples in the reactor, and he measured between 58 and 68 Watts heat output. So, conservatively, it produced an average of 10 Watts of excess heat continuously from the time we started, at 1 p.m., until we left, at 7 p.m. – for six hours.”

ScottL
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Post by ScottL »

Axil wrote:
ScottL wrote:The same Josef Papp notorious for hoaxing a submarine sinking? Who managed to kill a man via this same "engine" when it exploded. Who patented his engine and gas mixture, then claimed to have never let known the secret mixture of inert gases?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Papp
The engine continues to be considered by many scientists as a hoax. Papp's poor physics theoretic background is demonstrated in the abstracts of the patents which have been criticized by Richard Feynman. Mr. Papp presented to an audience, including Feynman, an ill-fated demonstration in 1966, in which his engine exploded, killing one man and seriously injuring two others.
Papp was a nut much like Rossi, but you can believe wikipedia or your own lying eyes if you indeed did watched the dyno video.
I'm not sure what you'd want me to glean from the videos. If you read the article he was constantly priming the engine with a high output sparc-plug in a high pressureed inert gaseous mixture. Where's the "surprise" here?

tomclarke
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Post by tomclarke »

Kahuna wrote:Krivit reports on the NI LENR Conference currently going on in Austin:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/08/ ... struments/
Francesco Celani, a physicist with the Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics in Frascati, Italy, brought a LENR device he developed that uses hydrogen gas and a specially treated nickel wire. The concept was pioneered by another Italian, Francesco Piantelli, in the 1990s. Celani’s demonstration shows that the nickel-hydrogen gas system is robust and predicable and that it demonstrates the leading edge of LENR research.
“As soon as we applied the electrical power to the internal nichrome-wire heater (48 Watts DC), we began to see excess heat. There was no incubation period. Celani has eight thermocouples in the reactor, and he measured between 58 and 68 Watts heat output. So, conservatively, it produced an average of 10 Watts of excess heat continuously from the time we started, at 1 p.m., until we left, at 7 p.m. – for six hours.”
The problem with this demo - as with Hagelstein's, is that 48W is known to be input to the system, whereas the 58/68W output heat is not directly measured. It is calculated from temperature readings relative to those from a control. But especially with tiny wires one can imagine many surface effects that would change thermal resistance, and would be affected by previous H2 or D2 loading.

Temperature is not heat, and the output measurement is only valid if there is no difference between control (and/or calibration) and active runs. The LENR claims are based on massive assumptions.

Given one of these demos, and enough time and effort, one could try to rule out all the conventional mechanisms for the observed output.

The LENR people (in the papers I have read) assume that none of these mechanisms are significant and therefore claim excess heat.

Axil
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Post by Axil »

ScottL wrote:The same Josef Papp notorious for hoaxing a submarine sinking? Who managed to kill a man via this same "engine" when it exploded. Who patented his engine and gas mixture, then claimed to have never let known the secret mixture of inert gases?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Papp
The engine continues to be considered by many scientists as a hoax. Papp's poor physics theoretic background is demonstrated in the abstracts of the patents which have been criticized by Richard Feynman. Mr. Papp presented to an audience, including Feynman, an ill-fated demonstration in 1966, in which his engine exploded, killing one man and seriously injuring two others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPY0skKj ... detailpage


Rohnermachine.com

Robert and John are the two Rohber brothers who are competing in the development of the Papp engine. John is developing a two cylinder horizontally opposed version of the engine. John does not demo his version of the engine as a business decision but Bob does do demos.

The video shows the Tesla 2012 demo whose YouTube link is listed above. In it, McKubre is bearing witness as Robert Rohner rambles on about Papp technology.

Robert Rohber provides incite into Papp's motivations and business thinking which are interesting.

The demo shows the device that McKubre used to appraise the Papp reaction in a 20 minute private evaluation with Robert Rohber.

At 1: 03 into the long video, McKubre states his position as an advocate of the Papp engine stating that it is based on a nuclear process. McHubre sites Cecil Baumgartner a first hand witness to the Feynman test for his initial interest in the engine.

A first hand eye witness to the Dr. Rickard P. Feynman ill fated demo said Dr. Feynman actually kills that poor unlucky by-stander when he pulled the power plug which in tern disables the control electronics on the Papp engine and the engine over-revs. The engine eventually blows a rod the killed the guy. Cal Tech removed all records of the incident to protect Feynman and so died the Papp engine in the science community.

As a personal opinion, McKubre deserves some credit, He has a open mind and is not fixated on the deuterium LENR reaction.

Axil
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Post by Axil »

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/ ... icle2.html

R. Feynman account of the circumstances around the Papp engine explosion.

For the convenience of our readership at Talk-Polywell.org I will post a rebuttal to Dr, Feynman's account.

http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazi ... /papp.html

Feynman's Mistakes and the Recovery

But at the public meeting the next month at which the fatality occurred (see the local newspaper account of the fatality and injuries-p. 30) was Caltech physicist Richard P. Feynman (1918-1988), who had worked on the Manhattan atomic bomb project in World War II. Before even arriving at the demonstration, Feynman assumed that the Papp engine, whose operation he was about to witness, had to be part of an elaborate hoax. We know this because he recounted his reactions during the episode in his widely circulated internet account touted by the "skeptic" community (see "Mr. Papf's (sic) Perpetual Motion Machine," p. 29).

But here is the central problem with Feynman's analysis (which has many other errors of fact and logic embedded in it): There was a court action against Feynman by Papp and his backer, Don Roser of Environetics, Inc., as a result of Feynman's inept attempt to disprove the Papp engine with his unauthorized pulling of an electric control-circuit wire that Feynman egregiously imagined had to be powering the engine. It was unfortunate for Feynman that the wire's gauge was far too thin even had there been a secret electric motor within the retrofit Volvo engine. Furthermore, as you will read, the engine kept running even after the flimsy wire was removed. Feynman asserted that Papp most likely had deliberately planned to blow up his own engine to avoid subsequent discovery of the "fraud"! And, Feynman acknowledges that there was an out-of-court settlement with Caltech. Surely, had there ever been the slightest piece of evidence that conventional explosives blew up the Papp engine that day, Caltech would most certainly not have had to settle. Papp would soon have been charged with manslaughter, no doubt, and Feynman would surely have cited this evidence publicly. He was not one to shrink from dramatic gestures. Caltech also had the motive and the means to skewer Papp with the kind of evidence that is routinely gathered by police departments and crime labs following explosion accidents.

However, all records of the investigation into the accident appear to have vanished down some kind of a memory hole. I believe they exist somewhere, but we have not been able— yet— to obtain them. On June 29, 1998, Caltech's very helpful Associate Archivist, Shelley Erwin, faxed me: "Well, the mysterious affair with Mr. Papp/Papf continues to remain mysterious. I have found nothing in the Feynman papers that refers to it. Nor is there any obvious reference to Mr. Papp or the lawsuit in administrative or publicity papers from the time. We do not have a clippings file for the 1960s, so that is one type of resource I did not investigate. . .I think I have done all I can here, without any useful result. We would be interested to know how your search comes out— if indeed this is a true account. I wish I knew."

I made more recent contact with various Caltech offices, which could not provide me with any records— not even its public information office had newsclips, and efforts to locate official accident reports in California have come up dry. Some of these may have been destroyed, according to some police departments contacted. After all, this is an accident that happened thirty-five years ago. But the point is that nowhere, so far, do we have any evidence that the explosion was a result of illicit explosives. Failing such direct evidence of hoax, the proved violence of the explosions— the November 1968 and the October 1968 ones— strongly point to the reality of the Papp process. But we also have the contemporary laboratory work that establishes convincing evidence— visual and by instrumentation— that noble gases can be made to explode and achieve over-unity. Heroic work on a shoestring budget over the past few years is recounted in broad scope by researchers Mark Hugo and Blair Jenness in Minnesota (p. 51). We hope to feature their work in greater depth in future issues. Heinz Klostermann of California, whom I met two years ago, has been of great assistance in assembling some of the information that went into this issue of Infinite Energy. On p. 55, he discusses his broad knowledge of many of the groups working in the U.S. in the past and today in the effort to recover the Papp engine technology. He has begun his own independent initiative.

Teemu
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Post by Teemu »

So only people who have observed that Papp engine for extended times, days, week or so, are those who are presently trying to commercially benefit from that Papp engine (Rohner Groupl, LCC) :roll:

Skipjack
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Post by Skipjack »

Whx didnt Pap simply build another engine, then?
After all, he got a nice settlement from Caltech that would have allowed him to do that...

paperburn1
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Post by paperburn1 »

Teemu wrote:So only people who have observed that Papp engine for extended times, days, week or so, are those who are presently trying to commercially benefit from that Papp engine (Rohner Groupl, LCC) :roll:
logistics of fuel source alone kills this device even if it did work.

Kahuna
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Post by Kahuna »

Defkalion presentation at NI Week in Austin:

http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/defka ... t-ni-week/

Axil
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Post by Axil »

paperburn1 wrote:
Teemu wrote:So only people who have observed that Papp engine for extended times, days, week or so, are those who are presently trying to commercially benefit from that Papp engine (Rohner Groupl, LCC) :roll:
logistics of fuel source alone kills this device even if it did work.
Any references or is your opinion uninformed?

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