10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:42 am

In any case, whatever the Navy is doing, polywell or LENR, it is blacked out. Only time will tell.

Axil, you are really making a leap over the LENR thing. SPAWAR dropped it. No biggie. It is not their lane anyway. Under the old boss, they branched out a few ways that had some eyebrows raised. LENR included. Now they have a new boss, and he is re-aligning back towards SPAWAR's traditional core mission/purpose. This makes sense for him to do, given the money crunch these days, with more to follow in seven months.

As far as things being blacked out. I would posit that is perspective based. Your perspective sees it as such. It is not classified, it is not secret, it is just that you don't get to see any info, while others do.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:01 pm

I find it unfortunate. Breakthrus often occur when NON-experts diddle around with things "everyone knows don't work". Ah well.

Ivy Matt · Post by **Ivy Matt** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:42 pm

Axil wrote:Also Rossi said…customer’s name begins with an N and is experienced at keeping secrets.

Axil, my apologies if I am completely out of it, but unfortunately I am unable to access the Mail Archive where I am. However, if Rossi said what you quote him as saying, I imagine he said it either in an interview or on his website. I am unable to find any such quotation on his website apart from the following exchange:

Giovanni
November 11th, 2011 at 12:15 PM

Dear Ing. Rossi
I have a vague idea, that is:
- the first customer of the e-cat, whose name has been suggested starts with “N”, could be N.I…..
- that they have purchased an e-cat to let them engineer their instrumentation “live” on the device….
If this idea is worth to be considered, it could be a TREMENDOUS positive fact, they had the time to install and run the e-cat, if they have signed obviously the run has been successfull.
PLEASE Ing. Rossi, tell us if this idea has a minimal possibility to be the truth..!!
(vote from 0 to 10…!)

With my best regards and hope
Giovanni

Andrea Rossi
November 11th, 2011 at 2:07 PM

Dear Giovanni:
We cannot disclose the name of the Customer.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

As far as I am aware, the first public revelation of the "starts with an N" rumor occurred on PESN:

Scam? I think that is 99% improbable.

Part of that is because I am privy to some confidential information about an independent validation by a very credible institution that starts with an N.

After this rumor was amplified by a Fox News reporter and started spreading across the Internet, Sterling Allan offered the following clarification:

Next, he wrote:

"Allan hinted on his blog that an unnamed 'customer' of Rossi's device is a military organization that starts with an N. Rossi said this customer measured and verified the test -- and told FoxNews.com that Paul Swanson with the U.S. Navy’s Space and Naval Warfare Systems unit (SPAWAR) can vouch for the demonstration."

Correction: That reference to a U.S. (I didn't say "military") organization that starts with an N was not in relation to the "customer" but a previous entity that independently and successfully tested the E-Cat. I never intended to tie those two together, and I actually separated them in my communications with him (or at least I thought I did).

I don't know who the customer is, so I can't give hints about it. I told him as much.

Presumably Rossi did say something about an organization that starts with an N, but only to Sterling Allan and/or a few others. And presumably that organization was NASA. And presumably the "validation" wasn't quite what Rossi had represented.

Or do you know of a more direct statement, from Rossi himself, about the organization that starts with an N?

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:10 pm

KitemanSA wrote:I find it unfortunate. Breakthrus often occur when NON-experts diddle around with things "everyone knows don't work". Ah well.

Good point.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:53 am

Krivit has been interviewed by NBF, and paints a nice Rossibash.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/03/steven ... se-of.html

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:38 am

ladajo wrote:Krivit has been interviewed by NBF, and paints a nice Rossibash.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/03/steven ... se-of.html

Looks like Steve wrote the questions as well as the answers.

Another little NBF article on CF:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/03/nextbi ... -cold.html

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:09 am

Looks like Steve wrote the questions as well as the answers.

No, Sander Olsen wrote the questions.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:24 am

Brian,
If you are reading this thread, any direct comments other than what you posted on NBF? Always nice to have you chime in.

I was also wondering if you were going to pick up the new contract mod for EMC2? <off topic>

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:43 pm

Skipjack wrote:
Looks like Steve wrote the questions as well as the answers.
No, Sander Olsen wrote the questions.

Gee really. I was too subtle I guess. Let me try again.

The questions seemed made-to-order for Steve's well known anti-Rossi vitriol.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:13 pm

Gee really. I was too subtle I guess. Let me try again.

The questions seemed made-to-order for Steve's well known anti-Rossi vitriol.

No, I did fully understand where you were coming from. I just chose to ignore it and answer factually

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:29 pm

Krivit: Pettersson Finds Major Flaw But Still Believes in Rossi’s E-Cat:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/03/ ... sis-e-cat/

tomclarke · Post by **tomclarke** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:28 pm

Kahuna wrote:Krivit: Pettersson Finds Major Flaw But Still Believes in Rossi’s E-Cat:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/03/ ... sis-e-cat/

The issue about incorrect siting of sensors being the easiest way to get false results in non-steam tests has been noted all over the internet, (including here).

Nice to see that some of the Rossi not-snakes (translate: unequivocal Rossi supporters) are competent enough to comment on it.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:52 pm

And Krivit attempts to further clarify:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/03/ ... eliberate/

Of note is the first comment (granted by a controversial poster), which calls out the potential "Name Dropping" of UNH and suppossed testing, which apparently there is no surviving documentation for regarding Rossi's attempt to sell "revolutionary" thermo-generators to the Army.

tomclarke · Post by **tomclarke** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:59 pm

ladajo wrote:And Krivit attempts to further clarify:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/03/ ... eliberate/

Of note is the first comment (granted by a controversial poster), which calls out the potential "Name Dropping" of UNH and suppossed testing, which apparently there is no surviving documentation for regarding Rossi's attempt to sell "revolutionary" thermo-generators to the Army.

“This test was an intentional deception, as usual,” Ahern wrote. “He mounted the thermocouple such that it responded directly to the heater and not the actual temperature of the hot water. This was not an oversight. He used this trick in February [2011] with Levi.

“This is why the power appeared to go up when shutting off the power. The liquid heat transfer exceeded the vapor and the thermocouple temperature rose as it did not reflect the fluid characteristics as much as the location of the external thermocouple.

“Mounting thermocouples externally is also absurd. A T-type fitting to place it in the actual flow costs less than $20.”

But did Rossi know anything about thermocouples? In fact, he was an expert, as he wrote on his blog on May 21, 2011.

“I know very well the thermoelectric issue, because I made a patent exactly for high temperature [thermoelectrics],” Rossi wrote. “I worked for years, from 1996 through 2000 in this field, and applied them to engines, power generators, boilers, I worked [on contracts] for the Department of Energy and the Department of Defense in this field, through Leonardo Technologies Inc. … I made with my hands thermocouples with a very particular directional fusion I had invented, obtaining a 100 Watts set very, very good, tested in the University of New Hampshire in 1998.”

New Energy Times confirmed Rossi’s statements about a patent. On Sept. 16, 2003, Rossi was issued U.S. patent US6620994 B2 for a thermoelectric generator.

While the patent was still pending, Rossi and his colleagues were able to obtain a Department of Defense contract with the Army to do further development on the thermoelectric devices. Strangely, the novel results observed at the University of New Hampshire could never be repeated. Not one of the devices Rossi had agreed to deliver under contract worked.

Parallel - do you want to give up yet?

Kahuna · Post by **Kahuna** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:17 pm

FWIW, I recently had an email exchange with Mark Dansie who is a fairly well known Alternative Energy investigator/skeptic from Australia and who has exposed a few scams in his day.

Among other things, he mentioned that he knew knew some members of a Defkalion fairly large test team who were in Greece conducting tests now. I asked if they were going to publish their results (good or bad) results or if they were prohibited in some way by an NDA. He said he did not know about the NDA but that they were committed to talking to him after their trip.

Not too much there except that I'm pretty sure that the tests are actually going on with legitimate and qualified third party folks. I will follow up with him in a couple of weeks to see if I can get a read on any results.