10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Enginerd
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:29 am

Postby Enginerd » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:35 pm

seedload wrote:Right, nickel is fissioning to create sulpher, chlorine, potassium, and calcium. They can't even count protons!

Maybe they didn't notice the EVEN lighter fission products that would be necessary. But the products are STABLE? Oh shit, now they can't even count neutrons!

Odd that.


If sulfur is produced in any significant quantity, then assuming for the moment the reaction chamber is steel and has any oxygen in it at all... Steel exposed to sulfur dioxide would be rapidly oxidized, sulfidated, and would likely melt (if enough oxygen and sulfur were present). Perhaps a bit unlikely, given the expected quantities of sulfur and oxygen.

But we do know for fact the reaction chamber is completely filled with hydrogen, right? Which means they would almost certainly end up with hydrogen sulfide production... Not only is it toxic and flammable, but it also has a characteristic rotten egg smell perceptible at concentrations as low as 0.00047 parts per million... Surely then, anybody visiting their facility, where they regularly open these devices and mess around with piles of secret powders, should be expected to at least sometimes notice the smell of rotten egg (if not also eye irritation, sore throat, cough, nausea, shortness of breath, fluid in the lungs, fatigue, loss of appetite, headaches, irritability, poor memory, and dizziness).

Hmm. Thinking about it, the videos I have seen of Rossi clearly indicate hydrogen sulfide poisoning -- particularly irritability and poor memory. :-)
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
--Philip K. Dick

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Postby seedload » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:08 pm

Enginerd wrote:
seedload wrote:Right, nickel is fissioning to create sulpher, chlorine, potassium, and calcium. They can't even count protons!

Maybe they didn't notice the EVEN lighter fission products that would be necessary. But the products are STABLE? Oh shit, now they can't even count neutrons!

Odd that.


If sulfur is produced in any significant quantity, then assuming for the moment the reaction chamber is steel and has any oxygen in it at all... Steel exposed to sulfur dioxide would be rapidly oxidized, sulfidated, and would likely melt (if enough oxygen and sulfur were present). Perhaps a bit unlikely, given the expected quantities of sulfur and oxygen.

But we do know for fact the reaction chamber is completely filled with hydrogen, right? Which means they would almost certainly end up with hydrogen sulfide production... Not only is it toxic and flammable, but it also has a characteristic rotten egg smell perceptible at concentrations as low as 0.00047 parts per million... Surely then, anybody visiting their facility, where they regularly open these devices and mess around with piles of secret powders, should be expected to at least sometimes notice the smell of rotten egg (if not also eye irritation, sore throat, cough, nausea, shortness of breath, fluid in the lungs, fatigue, loss of appetite, headaches, irritability, poor memory, and dizziness).

Hmm. Thinking about it, the videos I have seen of Rossi clearly indicate hydrogen sulfide poisoning -- particularly irritability and poor memory. :-)


Funny, I am smelling rotten eggs and I haven't even been to the facility.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

rcain
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Postby rcain » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:23 pm

Enginerd wrote:...

Hmm. Thinking about it, the videos I have seen of Rossi clearly indicate hydrogen sulfide poisoning -- particularly irritability and poor memory. :-)


ROFL :) - i think you might be on to something there ... '.... and then i woke up and it was all a dream ... '

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:04 pm

But we do know for fact the reaction chamber is completely filled with hydrogen, right? Which means they would almost certainly end up with hydrogen sulfide production... Not only is it toxic and flammable, but it also has a characteristic rotten egg smell perceptible at concentrations as low as 0.00047 parts per million... Surely then, anybody visiting their facility, where they regularly open these devices and mess around with piles of secret powders, should be expected to at least sometimes notice the smell of rotten egg (if not also eye irritation, sore throat, cough, nausea, shortness of breath, fluid in the lungs, fatigue, loss of appetite, headaches, irritability, poor memory, and dizziness).

Hmm. Thinking about it, the videos I have seen of Rossi clearly indicate hydrogen sulfide poisoning -- particularly irritability and poor memory. Smile



Funny, I am smelling rotten eggs and I haven't even been to the facility.


ROTFLMAO. Too!
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
http://protonboron.com/
THE OPEN POLYWELL FUSION CONSORTIUM

seedload
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Postby seedload » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:49 pm

Booo! I got censored on Rossi's Journal.

I forgot to copy the post before it got moderated, but it was basically this.

If this is website is claiming to be a scientific journal, and you posted a paper saying that your device gets part of its energy from nuclear decay processes, but you are now saying that there is no nuclear decay because you can blow it up without radiation, then isn't it the responsibility of a scientific journal to correct the mistake? Are you going to publish your new understanding of the 'reaction'?

I was much more diplomatic and scattered in some compliments but it got censored anyway.

Hey, I thought it was a good question.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

cgray45
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Postby cgray45 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:28 am

MSimon wrote:BTW EMC2 is not claiming any new unexplored science. Just a different configuration of known principles.

OTOH Rossi has a jumping story problem. He needs to get it under control so it is not continually contradicting its self. First there was no radiation, then some, then none (or was it the other way around?). Doesn't he know what he is doing? Can he measure?


Yeah-- the big thing about EMC2 is that the polywell is an adaptation of a known process ht produces fusion-- there is no dobut about that.

The question is "can you make a design that produces more energy than it requires" and EMC2 is quite open about the fact that at this point, that question is as yet *unanswered*.
Check out my blog-- not just about fusion, but anything that attracts this 40 something historians interest.

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Postby Joseph Chikva » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:46 am

cgray45 wrote:The question is "can you make a design that produces more energy than it requires" and EMC2 is quite open about the fact that at this point, that question is as yet *unanswered*.
As well as other fusion approaches (concepts) being in development including massively funded TOKAMAK.

Giorgio
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Location: China, Italy

Postby Giorgio » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:00 am

seedload wrote:Booo! I got censored on Rossi's Journal.

Welcome to the club 8)

Kahuna
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Postby Kahuna » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:44 pm

Sept 22 Presentation by Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist, NASA, Langley

http://www.ecatplanet.net/content.php?1 ... SA-Langley

Selected Quotes:

Over 2 decades with over 100 experiments worldwide indicate LENR is real, much greater than Chemical, Transmutations, Minimal radiation

Theories since 2006 indicate is probably weak interactions/ beta decay, NOT "Fusion"

The many Rossi demonstrations in 2011 suggest LENR may produce"useful" quantities of heat [up to 15KWs ?]. Watts-to-Kilowatts also produced in Piantelli and Patterson Experiments

The Rossi device, possibly producing useful energy but wholly "Edisonian", not "scalable" and not "Optimized"

Zawodny et al work, first effort to utilize theory to optimize energy output

Huge number of "knobs"/ approaches appear to"work", issue is how good can it be? Requires experiments guided by theory and major "creative" efforts/ inputs along with CAREFUL Experiments, YEARS of effort required. Rossi is just the merest beginnings of the research/ engineering optimization required.

In Short, LENR , depending upon the TBD performance, appears to be capable of Revolutionizing Aerospace across the board. No other single technology even comes close to the potential impacts of LENR upon Agency Missions.

Comments on LENR Going Forward
• Test/ determine the performance of the Rossi and Piantelli devices
• Experimentally validate the weak interaction theories
• Utilize theory to design/ create and experimentally optimize performance, including surface morphology considerations/ opportunities and bootstrapping
• Summarize/ rackup the myriad approaches throughout the entire system/ sequence that appear to work [ e.g. the 5 or so methods of adding energy].
• The 2 decades of experiments and the weak interaction theories have removed the existential risk, what is remaining is to ENGINEER for improved performance. Also obviously all the safety issues, labs have blown up studying this arena
• SO - Invent/ create optimized/ improved LENR "Devices", testing "Rossi" is merely a small first step, do the systems and propulsive/other application R&D
• BTW LENR [ also] solves Global Climate and Energy


I can't help but think that Bushnell knows something we don't know.

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Postby Joseph Chikva » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:43 pm

Kahuna wrote:http://www.ecatplanet.net/content.php?123-LENR-Presentation-by-Dennis-Bushnell-Chief-Scientist-NASA-Langley

Selected Quotes:

Over 2 decades with over 100 experiments worldwide indicate LENR is real,...
Please give a link where he is saying the same except ecatplanet.net . As little Google search gave me the following:
Low-energy nuclear reactors (LENRs), otherwise known as cold fusion reactors, were considered impossible to build a decade ago but are gaining attention thanks to the work of Allan Widom and Lewis Larsen, who have proposed a new theory to explain how LENR might work. NASA is conducting experiments in an attempt to verify their theory, which explains the decades-long LENR experiments as products of quantum weak interaction theory applied to condensed matter, not fusion.
Also as I understand unlike Rossi Widom and Larsen do not claim about production of net power. Where does Mr. Bushnell speaks about Rossi except pro-Rossi's web-sites? And as if I recall correctly Rossi denies Widom-Larsen theory.

And
NASA is conducting experiments in an attempt to verify their theory,…
and can not report anything valuable yet and Rossi can?
The poor man lending even coffee machine and not knowing how to measure heat?

Betruger
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Postby Betruger » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:08 pm

Kahuna wrote:Sept 22 Presentation by Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist, NASA, Langley

http://www.ecatplanet.net/content.php?1 ... SA-Langley

Selected Quotes:

Over 2 decades with over 100 experiments worldwide indicate LENR is real, much greater than Chemical, Transmutations, Minimal radiation

Theories since 2006 indicate is probably weak interactions/ beta decay, NOT "Fusion"

The many Rossi demonstrations in 2011 suggest LENR may produce"useful" quantities of heat [up to 15KWs ?]. Watts-to-Kilowatts also produced in Piantelli and Patterson Experiments

The Rossi device, possibly producing useful energy but wholly "Edisonian", not "scalable" and not "Optimized"

Zawodny et al work, first effort to utilize theory to optimize energy output

Huge number of "knobs"/ approaches appear to"work", issue is how good can it be? Requires experiments guided by theory and major "creative" efforts/ inputs along with CAREFUL Experiments, YEARS of effort required. Rossi is just the merest beginnings of the research/ engineering optimization required.

In Short, LENR , depending upon the TBD performance, appears to be capable of Revolutionizing Aerospace across the board. No other single technology even comes close to the potential impacts of LENR upon Agency Missions.

Comments on LENR Going Forward
• Test/ determine the performance of the Rossi and Piantelli devices
• Experimentally validate the weak interaction theories
• Utilize theory to design/ create and experimentally optimize performance, including surface morphology considerations/ opportunities and bootstrapping
• Summarize/ rackup the myriad approaches throughout the entire system/ sequence that appear to work [ e.g. the 5 or so methods of adding energy].
• The 2 decades of experiments and the weak interaction theories have removed the existential risk, what is remaining is to ENGINEER for improved performance. Also obviously all the safety issues, labs have blown up studying this arena
• SO - Invent/ create optimized/ improved LENR "Devices", testing "Rossi" is merely a small first step, do the systems and propulsive/other application R&D
• BTW LENR [ also] solves Global Climate and Energy


I can't help but think that Bushnell knows something we don't know.
That'd be encouraging. Take the lead over from Rossi's lunacy.

Maui
Posts: 533
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Location: Madison, WI

Postby Maui » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:21 pm

Joseph Chikva wrote:Please give a link where he is saying the same except ecatplanet.net.

I dunno, I know its not official, but it looks pretty legit to me. Not sure what someone would hope to gain by faking this. If its fake, we'd know in a matter of days if not sooner.

Remember Krivit had already "confirmed" Bushnell was high on LENR back in September:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/09/ ... -research/

icarus
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:48 am

Postby icarus » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:44 pm

Well this LENR thing going viral is gonna suck all the oxygen out of all other energy researches for a long time.

Polywell was a nice idea, pity that they hadn't been public with experimental results (as Bussard wanted) a few years back. The crowd-source effect could have meant it went somewhere. Too bad, so sad.

Maui
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:10 am
Location: Madison, WI

Postby Maui » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:51 pm

icarus wrote:Well this LENR thing going viral is gonna suck all the oxygen out of all other energy researches for a long time.

Polywell was a nice idea, pity that they hadn't been public with experimental results (as Bussard wanted) a few years back. The crowd-source effect could have meant it went somewhere. Too bad, so sad.

Uh, no.

First of all, while this seems to be additional evidence that something is happening, even Bushnell's bullet points are concerning potential applications based upon just how much performance is possible. To determine how much performance is possible the alleged slides say this will take "YEARS of effort".

There is no way all other nuclear research is suddenly going to be put on hold over this.

MSimon
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Postby MSimon » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:58 pm

Maui wrote:
icarus wrote:Well this LENR thing going viral is gonna suck all the oxygen out of all other energy researches for a long time.

Polywell was a nice idea, pity that they hadn't been public with experimental results (as Bussard wanted) a few years back. The crowd-source effect could have meant it went somewhere. Too bad, so sad.

Uh, no.

First of all, while this seems to be additional evidence that something is happening, even Bushnell's bullet points are concerning potential applications based upon just how much performance is possible. To determine how much performance is possible the alleged slides say this will take "YEARS of effort".

There is no way all other nuclear research is suddenly going to be put on hold over this.


Quite so. Bussard stated that Polywell wasn't science. It was engineering all based on real numbers for well understood effects.

LENR is not even to the well understood science level - let alone engineering.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
http://protonboron.com/
THE OPEN POLYWELL FUSION CONSORTIUM


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