10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

[sparkyy0007]

Yeah, but didnt he announce that he wanted to give the UoB the money for the testing and research, once he got the money from his customer?
So either the customer did not pay, or Rossi was liing.

Or both

Once Rossi has a sufficient number of "customers" he apparently has no objective reason to waste money for universities. The universities may be helpful to buck up the credibility of technology so, having the customers in line cancels the need for such "cooperation"; in fact, it increases the risk of leaking out of "secrets". So if Rossi does pay 500K may indicate that he still does not feel secure enough about his business footprint, likely because the e-cat is not robust enough to meet the criteria to be a product.

Actually if it does work (and that's a big IF) , he is insane not to get into bed with a university, unless
he has a team of scientists on staff to figure out what's going on and publish /
patent to lock down his IP. Trade secret is crazy, this is a first iteration and the design
is not characterized much less optimized. If it works and he continues to follow this path,
someone is going to eat his lunch IMHO.

[stefanbanev]

Or both

Once Rossi has a sufficient number of "customers" he apparently has no objective reason to waste money for universities. The universities may be helpful to buck up the credibility of technology so, having the customers in line cancels the need for such "cooperation"; in fact, it increases the risk of leaking out of "secrets". So if Rossi does pay 500K may indicate that he still does not feel secure enough about his business footprint, likely because the e-cat is not robust enough to meet the criteria to be a product.

Actually if it does work (and that's a big IF) , he is insane not to get into bed with a university, unless
he has a team of scientists on staff to figure out what's going on and publish /
patent to lock down his IP. Trade secret is crazy, this is a first iteration and the design
is not characterized much less optimized. If it works and he continues to follow this path,
someone is going to eat his lunch IMHO.

Why to outsource it to university, it is a way more secure to hire "scientists" to purify the technology and to form IP portfolio.

[Giorgio]

Once Rossi has sufficient number of "customers" he apparently has no objective reason to waste money for universities. The universities may be helpful to buck up the credibility of technology so, having the customers in line cancels the need for such "cooperation"; in fact, it increases the risk of leaking out of "secrets". So if Rossi does pay 500K may indicate that he still does not feel secure enough about his business footprint, likely because the e-cat is not robust enough to meet the criteria to be a product.

I do not agree.
In business you have something called reputation. He used UoB reputation to rise his own and attract customers. Should he choose not to go forward with UoB contract his reputation will fall to zero and big question marks will appear over the heads of his actual and potential customers.

Additionally, finding the right type of equipment and professional researchers to actually identify and patent what's going on into his reactor (IF it works) , is not something you do over the course of few weeks time, while in UoB he has at least of couple of trusted supporters ready to work for him.

Retracting from UoB contract at this point is the worst move he can make if he really believes that the e-Cat works.
If he does my personal conclusion will be 100% vaporware.

[sparkyy0007]

Why to outsource it to university, it is a way more secure to hire "scientists" to purify the technology and to form IP portfolio.

Time, money, talent, resources etc.
If Rossi was IBM or GE with the appropriate research infrastructure already setup, you are right, but this takes years and time is not on his side.
Actually, collaboration with a few prominent universities would make more sense given the magnitude of this discovery. IP could be shared,
everyone involved would get rich. Collaboration is done all the time with
large/small firms and universities, this is nothing new.

[stefanbanev]

Once Rossi has sufficient number of "customers" he apparently has no objective reason to waste money for universities. The universities may be helpful to buck up the credibility of technology so, having the customers in line cancels the need for such "cooperation"; in fact, it increases the risk of leaking out of "secrets". So if Rossi does pay 500K may indicate that he still does not feel secure enough about his business footprint, likely because the e-cat is not robust enough to meet the criteria to be a product.

I do not agree.
In business you have something called reputation. He used UoB reputation to rise his own and attract customers. Should he choose not to go forward with UoB contract his reputation will fall to zero and big question marks will appear over the heads of his actual and potential customers.

Additionally, finding the right type of equipment and professional researchers to actually identify and patent what's going on into his reactor (IF it works) , is not something you do over the course of few weeks time, while in UoB he has at least of couple of trusted supporters ready to work for him.

Retracting from UoB contract at this point is the worst move he can make if he really believes that the e-Cat works.
If he does my personal conclusion will be 100% vaporware.

Generally you are right on all points unless Rossi knows 100% it does work and he has customers in line who (he is totally confident) will be satisfied, in such case he really does not care what skeptics think. I agree that his confidence may be a result of delusion yet his actions do indicate that he is really confident.

>finding the right type of equipment and professional researchers
>to actually identify and patent what's going on into his reactor
>(IF it works) , is not something you do over the course of few
>weeks time, while in UoB he has at least of couple of trusted
>supporters ready to work for him.

Well, it's correct that outsourcing may safe some time yet, once you have sufficient $$ you may form a way stronger team of researchers from different parts of world. Many CF researchers would love to get in this business instead to be on fringe of academia underpaid and....

[Skipjack]

If he does my personal conclusion will be 100% vaporware.

Yepp, his credibility had gotten up to 60% for me with the successful test for the customer (alleged anyway). Now that there are doubts about him going forward with the UoB contract, his credibility has been falling in my eye again and keeps falling as more news regarding this comes in.
He was down to 40% yesterday. Today it looks more like 30% to me.

[stefanbanev]

Why to outsource it to university, it is a way more secure to hire "scientists" to purify the technology and to form IP portfolio.

......
Actually, collaboration with a few prominent universities would make more sense given the magnitude of this discovery. IP could be shared,
everyone involved would get rich. Collaboration is done all the time with
large/small firms and universities, this is nothing new.

>Actually, collaboration with a few prominent universities would
>make more sense given the magnitude of this discovery.

Exactly opposite; because of the practical magnitude of this discovery, the collaboration makes no sense at all; it is quite naive to think otherwise... The collaboration is interesting for underdogs and for established big businesses who has a huge administrative/marketing resource to capitalize on such "charity"...

[deane]

There has been quite an amusing exchange of correspondence between Prof. Celani and Rossi himself on the pages of a known Italian Scientific Magazine called "Focus".
Prof Celani Proposed a quick and cheap (10K Euro) test to validate Rosi's e-Cat, and Rossi refused.
They provided also an English translation.

Prof. Celani proposal for a validation test
Rossi rejection of above proposal

That's not a bad response on Rossi's part. Basically, "None of the tests we've done so far have convinced the scientific community, so let's wait for UoB to not just do tests but actually provide some insight into how it works."

Doesn't do anything to convince me he's not a fraud, but it's a plausible response.

[ladajo]

It would be visible on fbo.gov or neco.
Paul Swanson says he can not vouch for the test, regardless of what Rossi says.

Well, I tried fbo for EMC2, who we know is a contractor, and all it says is "Thank You for Contacting Us
Thank you for contacting US Contractor Registration. Someone will be contacting you shortly." which isn't very helpful. I didn't find any reference to EMC2 on the NECO synposis search either. Even assuming this is just a result of my not having a lot of familiarity with the sites, since we don't know who Rossi might have subcontracted with it isn't even clear who exactly we should be searching for.

As best I can tell, Swanson has only said he will not comment at all. Regardless of whether Swanson does actually vouch for the E-cat test results, Rossi bringing his name up suggests either the Navy has some interest, or that Rossi is so insane he is naming the names of people who have no interest.

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity ... 6&_cview=0

https://www.neco.navy.mil/upload/N68936 ... R-0044.pdf

Swanson will not vouch for the testing.

[Giorgio]

That's not a bad response on Rossi's part. Basically, "None of the tests we've done so far have convinced the scientific community, so let's wait for UoB to not just do tests but actually provide some insight into how it works."

Doesn't do anything to convince me he's not a fraud, but it's a plausible response.

There has been no test till now but only demonstrations that were highly flawed form a data collection point of view.

What prof. Celani told Rossi is:
For 10K Euro we set up an experiment for you done in a controlled environment and measuring all the variables to few % of error and we can easily demonstrate if the e-Cat works as claimed.

What Rossi replied was:
I am not interested because I will pay UoB 500K Euro and ask them to explain to me in 2 years time how the e-Cat works.

So, I will not abide now to prove that it works, but in two years time, if it will be discovered that it actually works, I will tell you why it works.
Makes no sense to me.

[Giorgio]

Generally you are right on all points unless Rossi knows 100% it does work and he has customers in line who (he is totally confident) will be satisfied, in such case he really does not care what skeptics think. I agree that his confidence may be a result of delusion yet his actions do indicate that he is really confident.

You are right, if he has customers in line that are paying he can ignore any additional request from everyone if he wants.
Personally I am not yet sure that someone has paid yet, but I might be wrong.

Well, it's correct that outsourcing may safe some time yet, once you have sufficient $$ you may form a way stronger team of researchers from different parts of world. Many CF researchers would love to get in this business instead to be on fringe of academia underpaid and....

Is not only a question of money, but also of time and energy drain.
Finding the correct researchers with the correct attitude, setting up the labs, the equipment, regulations, understanding who you can trust and who not, going through endless reports trying to figure out the real data from the hopeful results...... I did set up a small research lab for organic and inorganic chemistry once, I will never do it again. And we were not researching unknown science and a world changing technology.

Edit: fixed orrible spelling mistake.

[rcain]

i am just waiting for the YouuTube videos to start appearing, of all the 'early Rossi adopters', receiving their ECats in the post, then proceeding to describe, as only American 'spoddy-types' can:

... let us start by examining the packaging ... nothing too surprising to see here ... a standard re-badged freight container ... not to sure about the quality of some of these joins .... we will see how those stand the test of time...

moving on....lets turn the device over, flick off the protective seal and remove the back plate.... there we go.... now, lets see how we can mod this mutha and get it to accept a standard (insert isotope of your choice here)... available from any general hardware store....

...

later reports of

... old lady finds dead cat behind ECat...

....

... widespread reports of 'headaches' and flashing lights whilst standing underneath ECats...

.

not to mention 'exploding building syndrome'.

i really think Rossi has some way to go before all this pans out for him. Some due diligence now, carried out by some reputable university (or a few), could make the path so much less painful for him (and everyone else).

unfortunately that means Rossi putting some other party (other than his wife) in a position of 'trust'. i think he is tactically and possibly pathologically unable to admit such a thing. so i wonder if he will not end up getting sidelined in any end-game, if there ever is one.

[Betruger]

Retracting from UoB contract at this point is the worst move he can make if he really believes that the e-Cat works.
If he does my personal conclusion will be 100% vaporware.

Or insanity.

[MSimon]

Retracting from UoB contract at this point is the worst move he can make if he really believes that the e-Cat works.
If he does my personal conclusion will be 100% vaporware.

Or insanity.

Are the two mutually exclusive?

[Betruger]

Yeah that's not either/or but an and/or "or".