10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:08 am

Ivy Matt wrote:According to Sterling Allan at PESN, Rossi has signed an agreement with National Instruments to provide the instrumentation for the E-Cat plants. Interesting.

http://pesn.com/2011/11/10/9601953_Nati ... _controls/

Nice photo there. It is a 20 ft (6.1 m) shipping container.

I worked with NI stuff back in the late 90s. I thought the set up was slow. And the whole deal was clunky. I wonder how many crates of instruments they will need for 35 or 100 or 300 eCats. And I wonder how much shielding they need. If it is at the level I calculated (a reduction of gamma flux by a factor of 1,000) that container is overloaded. Plus the volume remaining for "actual" eCats is small.

If he needs more than a factor of 1,000 there is no room for anything but lead in the boxes.

Of course if he is just using electrical heaters he is not going to need a lot of shielding. Like none.

Crawdaddy · Post by **Crawdaddy** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:09 am

Ivy Matt wrote:According to Sterling Allan at PESN, Rossi has signed an agreement with National Instruments to provide the instrumentation for the E-Cat plants. Interesting.

http://pesn.com/2011/11/10/9601953_Nati ... _controls/

It is interesting, but national instruments makes a very wide assortment of products. This deal could be as small as a few thousand dollars worth of software development.

Crawdaddy · Post by **Crawdaddy** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:54 am

Ivy Matt wrote:According to Sterling Allan at PESN, Rossi has signed an agreement with National Instruments to provide the instrumentation for the E-Cat plants. Interesting.

http://pesn.com/2011/11/10/9601953_Nati ... _controls/

It is interesting, but national instruments makes a very wide assortment of products. This deal could be as small as a few thousand dollars worth of software development.

icarus · Post by **icarus** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:29 am

More grist for the mill .... something for to chew on over the weekend.

Some very interesting quotes that support some suspicions I've harboured for a while, and what has kept me leaning to the "less-than" sceptical side. My contention has been from looking at Rossi's set-ups, demos, behaviour, etc is that he is just, only just keeping this thing under control. This is pretty much confirmed now

During recent testing Rossi himself has been the manual controller during the self-sustaining periods of all the demonstrations of the E-Cat done to date, but he has said that in mass produced E-Cats, the control of the E-Cat reactors would need to be done automatically.

http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/11/natio ... at-plants/

Temperature control is not technically that difficult, time constants are slow ... but getting the math into the controller of his reactor's behaviour has probably been outside his "skill-set" and development budget so he just watches the darn thing like a hawk and hits the emergency button whenever it looks like taking off.

Another comment made somewhere (can't find it now) is that he has exploded 37 of these things already during his testing. Another comment was during the extended Levi test it initially took off, temporarily producing 130 kW (factor of 10 surge) and Rossi became frantic, agitated, angry. (I'd say he is afraid of it's power and doesn't understand it fully (who does?)).

I have a hunch he is scared of these things and this explains a lot of his apparently paranoid behaviour when other people are around during fire up. He realises it is marginally safe but knows he is onto something and is desperate to maintain control but has limited funding so he cuts corners everywhere. Elaborate control tech., instrumentation and safety have gone out the window .... he is going for broke!

This what flying a fusion reactor by the seat of your pants while trying to bring it to market on shoestring budget looks like. It's messy, unsafe, controversial but stories like these just can not be concocted by man alone.

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:21 pm

I would like to think yo are right, but I remain less than convinced. This is what makes the saga fun to follow.
It is like watching Wimbeldon when you are wasted. Back and forth, back and forth, ohh! Point! Back and forth back and forth...

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:28 pm

Stefano Concezzi, who serves as NI's Director of Science and Big Physics Segment, told me that NI does not comment on contracts made with customers, unless the customer requests a press release; but he could confirm that Andrea Rossi is a customer.

"I would love for him to be right.

"We support every kind of research for the betterment of human kind. Whoever is interested in doing that, we would be happy to support."

So at this time, I would gather that their contract should not be construed as a validation or confirmation of the E-Cat science, but a signal of NI's willingness to help Rossi develop the technology into an even more robust embodiment, to help increase its operational stability, reliability, safety; while lowering its price point.

Talk about slight of hand in presenting non-factual factual data. Allan does not see this as we do...more like Pablo Picasso.

"not construes as a validation or comfirmation...help Rossi <make it> even more robust...stability, reliability...while lower the price point."

In effect: 'They are not saying it works, but they are supporting that it does so we can make it better and cheaper.' What twisted crap. No wonder he thinks Obama took a trip to Mars.

happyjack27 · Post by **happyjack27** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:35 pm

ladajo wrote: Talk about slight of hand in presenting non-factual factual data. Allan does not see this as we do...more like Pablo Picasso.

"not construes as a validation or comfirmation...help Rossi <make it> even more robust...stability, reliability...while lower the price point."

In effect: 'They are not saying it works, but they are supporting that it does so we can make it better and cheaper.' What twisted crap. No wonder he thinks Obama took a trip to Mars.

he talks like condolezza rice

Luzr · Post by **Luzr** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:01 pm

icarus wrote: This what flying a fusion reactor by the seat of your pants while trying to bring it to market on shoestring budget looks like. It's messy, unsafe, controversial but stories like these just can not be concocted by man alone.

So, again, all of them might sound plausible, but why the hell that 1MW demo again? Why customer?

If it is so much unstable, he clearly cannot sell the thing to customer for heating, correct? Or am I missing something?

Rossi's 'strategy' does not make sense, that is all... of course, other than he is hiding an elaborated scam.

Seriously, this if Rossi had something real, would not it be much easier to simply contant GE (or similar), do real tests and let GE to do the rest (or participate in process)? I believe if ecat is real, Rossi would be rich by now and richest man in the world within a couple of years.

So what Rossi does instead? Creates scrapyard looking box with a lots of aluminium foil over it and claims that some mysterious customer bought that thing....

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:02 pm

happyjack27 wrote:
ladajo wrote: Talk about slight of hand in presenting non-factual factual data. Allan does not see this as we do...more like Pablo Picasso.

"not construes as a validation or comfirmation...help Rossi <make it> even more robust...stability, reliability...while lower the price point."

In effect: 'They are not saying it works, but they are supporting that it does so we can make it better and cheaper.' What twisted crap. No wonder he thinks Obama took a trip to Mars.
he talks like condolezza rice

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:41 pm

It's messy, unsafe, controversial but stories like these just can not be concocted by man alone.

Read science fiction much?

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:41 pm

ladajo wrote:I would like to think yo are right, but I remain less than convinced. This is what makes the saga fun to follow.
It is like watching Wimbeldon when you are wasted. Back and forth, back and forth, ohh! Point! Back and forth back and forth...

Would that make Andre Rossi the John McEnroe (loud mouth shouter) of the LENR set?

Giorgio · Post by **Giorgio** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:49 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
ladajo wrote:I would like to think yo are right, but I remain less than convinced. This is what makes the saga fun to follow.
It is like watching Wimbeldon when you are wasted. Back and forth, back and forth, ohh! Point! Back and forth back and forth...
Would that make Andre Rossi the John McEnroe (loud mouth shouter) of the LENR set?

ROTFL

Enginerd · Post by **Enginerd** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:18 pm

KitemanSA wrote:
ladajo wrote:I would like to think yo are right, but I remain less than convinced. This is what makes the saga fun to follow.
It is like watching Wimbeldon when you are wasted. Back and forth, back and forth, ohh! Point! Back and forth back and forth...
Would that make Andre Rossi the John McEnroe (loud mouth shouter) of the LENR set?

Unlike Rossi, John McEnroe has charisma. People have called him many things, but I don't believe Rossi has ever been accused of having charisma.

JoeP · Post by **JoeP** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:15 pm

Enginerd wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:
ladajo wrote:I would like to think yo are right, but I remain less than convinced. This is what makes the saga fun to follow.
It is like watching Wimbeldon when you are wasted. Back and forth, back and forth, ohh! Point! Back and forth back and forth...
Would that make Andre Rossi the John McEnroe (loud mouth shouter) of the LENR set?
Unlike Rossi, John McEnroe has charisma. People have called him many things, but I don't believe Rossi has ever been accused of having charisma.

I don't know about that. Reading online blogs that are pro-Rossi you sure see a lot of sycophants and gushing over his every word. Charisma comes in many forms..

Joseph Chikva · Post by **Joseph Chikva** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:01 pm

JoeP wrote:I don't know about that. Reading online blogs that are pro-Rossi you sure see a lot of sycophants and gushing over his every word. Charisma comes in many forms..

I think that nobody would be interested in McEnroe's charisma if that was not #1. His soundly behavior was interesting - yes, both because he was a good player and at the same time a little bit hooligan. And what difference has Rossi charisma or not if his device does not work?