10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

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JoeP
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by JoeP »

The main reason why rocket motors are reasonably safe is for the same reasons that they worked since ancient times: The burn occurs roughly in a plane that moves down the cylinder of fuel and is not explosive. This is due to the chemical, physical composition, density, and geometry of the various fuels used. The other reason the rocket doesn't burst is because it is not a sealed system. E.g. it has an exhaust. This is a poor analogy. The Rossi reactor is small and sealed.

The other thing you have not mentioned, if you are so sure about something like thermite being used in the "Hot E-Cat" is the energy density. How long could you expect to generate excess heat for in this scenario (assuming the sealed, non-stoichiometric fuel ratio, non-outgasssing, electrically controllable, microprocessor supervised, thermally radiative and air-cooled, but very cheap, and very easy to make "reactor")? Would the thermite alone account for the energy densities reported in the last experiment? Or must there also be some fraudulent, alternative power source going to the resistive heat element to make up the difference?

ScottL
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by ScottL »

Axil,

I thought that was suppose to be a demonstration? All I got was a stream of a poorly written VB app on an LCD and a complete lack of any pertinent data or even a view of the experiment running. Color me not impressed.

Axil
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

ScottL wrote:Axil,

I thought that was suppose to be a demonstration? All I got was a stream of a poorly written VB app on an LCD and a complete lack of any pertinent data or even a view of the experiment running. Color me not impressed.

FYI

What you saw was Lab View customized for Defkalion by National instruments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em5R_RM8E08

National instruments customers

http://www.ni.com/solutions/
National Instruments transforms the way engineers and scientists around the world design, prototype, and deploy systems for test, control, and embedded design applications. Using NI open graphical programming software and modular hardware, customers at more than 25,000 companies simplify development, increase productivity, and dramatically reduce time to market. From testing next-generation gaming systems to creating breakthrough medical devices, see how NI technology is used to continuously develop innovative technologies that impact millions of people.

National Instruments has been committed to advance LENR through open minded cooperation with major LENR developers.

I know you are interested in Physics. If you worked in this field you should have been familiar with the NI product line for physics.

http://www.ni.com/physics/

Particle Accelerators

Particle accelerators, devices that use electric fields to propel electrically charged particles to high speeds, are used for a variety of purposes ranging from studying particle physics to treating cancer. Researchers use NI platforms in numerous applications for their instrumentation and control needs.
Learn more about technologies used in particle accelerators

Fusion Reactors

With fusion power offering the potential for environmentally benign and essentially inexhaustible electricity, researchers are pursuing the challenge of confining plasma using a magnetic field. National Instruments offers commercial technologies for real-time control, analysis, and data acquisition.
Learn more about technologies for fusion experiments

Telescopes

With the advent of telescopes that incorporate the most advanced technologies and sophisticated techniques available to scientists, astronomy has become one of the most modern and dynamic sciences. NI LabVIEW software with its native multicore support and math and analysis functions offers scientists high-performance computational capabilities required to control and align the mirrors of a telescope.

Axil
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

As shown during the demo. the pre-recorded movie that shows the layout of the Defkalion reactor and test plan is here:

http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkal ... s/25223839

Joseph Chikva
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Joseph Chikva »

JoeP wrote:The burn occurs roughly in a plane that moves down the cylinder of fuel and is not explosive.
Really not explosive? Why are you so sure?
See this video about non-sealed Ammonium Perchlorate Plant Blast in Nevada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc_nnnBmMbM

And also be noted that in some formulations of composite rocket fuel some kinds of high explosives are used in amount up to 25%. E.g. such a powerful explosive as RDX (hexogen)
Table 1: Approximate base propellant composition
Ingredient Weight%
RDX (5 μm) 1-25
Ammonium perchlorate (AP) (300 μm : 80 μm :: 60:40) 83-59
Aluminum (15±3 μm) 1
Strontium carbonate (2-3 μm) 0.5
Zirconium silicate (2-3 μm) 0.5
Hydroxy-terminated Polybutadiene (HTPB) 10.0
Di-octyl adipate (DOA) 3.0
Pyrogallol (20 μm) 0.07
Adduct (n-Butane Diol : Trimethylol Propane :: 2:1) 0.1
Toluene diisocyanate (TDI) 0.83
Ferric acetyl acetonate (FeAA) 0.015 parts
“moves down the cylinder of fuel”? Who says? As there are many different configurations.

And commonly comparing amount of gases produced by thermit with amount produced by rocket fuel is like to compare huge penis with little finger.
Pardon for such analogy.
And minimum cross section of nozzle from one side and burn rate from another are two main factors determined internal pressure in chamber. Do not talk about thing you do not know.
JoeP wrote:Would the thermite alone account for the energy densities reported in the last experiment?
Are you so sure in Rossi’s reports? If all his demos made extremely non-professionally?

Axil
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

Live active test is beginning.

http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-US

It looks to me like john Hadjichristos, the moderator of the English based demo has studied the criticisms and objections of the skeptics that were proffered during the Rossi demos.

It will be interesting to see what the game plan for the criticisms and objections of this demo will be. This new info will be input for the next series of demos planed in the upcoming weeks more specifically at the NI trade show.

Please provide criticisms and objections quickly to allow enough time to adjust

JoeP
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by JoeP »

Joe Chickva,

I told you that I think your rocket analogy as compared to the sealed "Hot E-Cat" device sucks. It does, I'm sorry, and the all the rocket info you are posting has little to do with the questions I put about your thermite proposal regarding the excess heat apparently demonstrated in the last Rossi demo.

Just because you claim it is cheap and easy to do doesn't mean that you are correct about it. Doubtful, actually. I don't think it is all that cheap or easy to whip up, and there is certainly going to be a lot of trial and error time involved, as well as serious safety issues. All of which you do not consider. I'd hate to work next to you in a lab.

And the energy density is pertinent to you stating that you think Rossi is doing something like a thermite reaction in a sealed chamber. You do not seem to care how close (or how FAR, IMO) a a thermite powered "reactor" using the same materials and sealed volume constraints as with the E-Cat's inner chamber, is to the the claimed energy output. You blowing this off does not impress.

As you said, "Do not talk about thing you do not know." LOL.

Joseph Chikva
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Joseph Chikva »

JoeP wrote:the excess heat apparently demonstrated in the last Rossi demo.
Hehe "demonstrated"
Nothing demonstrated yet except extremely non-professionalism of demonstrators and also their believers.
I can not speak about "hot" device but real short-time output of Rossi "cold" device was not more than 1 kW at 750W of input electric power. As demonstrated there (by Mr. Krivit or Kvirit) also was a big amount of condensate instead Rossi;s clame about 100% dry steam. Than Rossi cried "Snakes!"

paperburn1
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Location: Third rock from the sun.

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by paperburn1 »

Axil wrote:Live active test is beginning.

http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-US

It looks to me like john Hadjichristos, the moderator of the English based demo has studied the criticisms and objections of the skeptics that were proffered during the Rossi demos.

It will be interesting to see what the game plan for the criticisms and objections of this demo will be. This new info will be input for the next series of demos planed in the upcoming weeks more specifically at the NI trade show.

Please provide criticisms and objections quickly to allow enough time to adjust
Yes it does, at least this has a resemblance of a real live test,I would have preferred a couple of old fashion in-line amp meter that were certified by a cal lab running in sync with the data monitor rather than the clamp on meters. (or did i miss that part I tuned out after awhile) I have to admit it was laboriously boring but most testing is just that.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.

ScottL
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by ScottL »

Axil wrote:Live active test is beginning.

http://new.livestream.com/triwu2/Defkalion-US

It looks to me like john Hadjichristos, the moderator of the English based demo has studied the criticisms and objections of the skeptics that were proffered during the Rossi demos.

It will be interesting to see what the game plan for the criticisms and objections of this demo will be. This new info will be input for the next series of demos planed in the upcoming weeks more specifically at the NI trade show.

Please provide criticisms and objections quickly to allow enough time to adjust
I think they're doing their output power calculation assuming water out, but at 142C you aren't going to have water out. Waiting to hear the explanation for the calculation.

JoeP
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by JoeP »

ScottL wrote:I think they're doing their output power calculation assuming water out, but at 142C you aren't going to have water out. Waiting to hear the explanation for the calculation.
Yeah, that is bugging me too. Just started watching the demo a few minutes ago. There is very little steam when they briefly showed the drain tube. Where is the thermocouple on the output side?

They did a control test earlier with argon I think. Did they show the output water temp?

bhl
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by bhl »

paperburn1 wrote: Yes it does, at least this has a resemblance of a real live test,I would have preferred a couple of old fashion in-line amp meter that were certified by a cal lab running in sync with the data monitor rather than the clamp on meters. (or did i miss that part I tuned out after awhile) I have to admit it was laboriously boring but most testing is just that.
Both electrical circuits (High Voltage and Heater) were on ~40x40cm wall-mount power monitoring devices with a digital readout and presumably tied in with LabView. Matts Lewan checked for DC and measured the voltage and current (with clamp volt meter and oscilloscope) and it matched the digital readout which matched the lab view. Listed as a Carlo Gavazzi M2172D-3 phase energy meter, but I didn't find specs online.

A lot of this is in the test protocol:
http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/fil ... esults.pdf


Some tidbits that came out from today's demo:
The high voltage used about 220watts for creating a plasma inside the hydrogen chamber at 10kV through "two modified spark plugs". The "heater" circuit used ~1.5kw. All Nickel isotopes except 61 react... and the reaction doesn't start until the debye temperature is reached (450K)

Axil
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

JoeP wrote:
ScottL wrote:I think they're doing their output power calculation assuming water out, but at 142C you aren't going to have water out. Waiting to hear the explanation for the calculation.
Yeah, that is bugging me too. Just started watching the demo a few minutes ago. There is very little steam when they briefly showed the drain tube. Where is the thermocouple on the output side?

They did a control test earlier with argon I think. Did they show the output water temp?
The presenter said near the beginning of today's demo that the power output calculations were not based on the enthalpy of steam although steam is present.

He said it was their "gift to the skeptics".

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... phase.html


Image

That 539 calories per gram of water vaporized to steam is what that gift to the skeptics amounted to.

Axil
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

http://matslew.wordpress.com/

Comments on Defkalion reactor demo in Milan

Mats Lewan: The biggest shift ever. July 24, 2013

Comments on Defkalion reactor demo in Milan

Joseph Chikva
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Joseph Chikva »

Axil wrote:http://matslew.wordpress.com/

Comments on Defkalion reactor demo in Milan

Mats Lewan: The biggest shift ever. July 24, 2013

Comments on Defkalion reactor demo in Milan
So, certain Mr. Lewan checked water exits reactor at 142 C (!!!!)and is already promoting license sale at 40.5 M$?
What power device produces 5.5KW or 27kW?

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