10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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seedload
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

In reference to the post above and as an example of how my position on Rossi has 'changed' I provide the following comment from me from two years ago.
Don't get me wrong, I am interested in this stuff. I do not rule out the possibility of LENR type reactions that we don't understand.

There may be some way of overcoming the Coulomb Barrier that is not yet known/understood. Muon catalyzed fusion should at least open our eyes to the possibility that there may be other ways to get nucleus close together.

Who knows - micro-hydrogen atoms, short lived neutron imitators, hydride ions doing deep dives, some sort of electrostatic resonance in the metal lattice that does things we don't yet understand - I suppose there could be something.

Maybe it isn't even new physics, but just and unexpected implication of existing physics.

Anything is possible.

But it would be a miracle for sure.
As would Rossi's cheap method of isotopic doping referenced in the link I provided.

The ONLY reason for my post was to point out the fact that Rossi has claimed that he has a way of enhancing Ni62 and Ni64 cheaply, a point that I didn't see referenced in these 60 pages of posts, as an answer to your question. Maybe it has to do with his biological patent applications.

It is interesting that if he really can get to pure Ni62 and Ni64, then the isotopes of copper ash are a little more explainable.
I believe that this post is an indication of an open mind, something that you believe I don't possess. As in, I began this discussion on Rossi with an open mind, but it is Rossi himself, with his endless parade of nonsense over the last two years, that has led me to CONCLUDE that he is full of shit and should not be believed.

I believe that this attitude is opposed to your apparent position that the benefit of the doubt should be extended indefinitely and without regard to decreasing credibility.

Regards
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

raelik
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by raelik »

Axil wrote:
seedload wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:Certain polaritons require an EXTERNAL EM signal to interact with the surface for it to be generated so it MAY be that the heater is providing a certain IR frequency to create the polariton which continues on for a while after it is created. Just a plausibility.
If plausible meant highly doubtful then, yes, plausible.

I got to say that I am still confused by all of this quasiparticle discussion. Again, my understanding is that quasiparticles aren't real things. They are emergent phenomena resulting from other particles behaving in coordinated ways. The emergent phenomena behaves in ways that are particle like and can be characterized and studied as if it were an actual particle with actual properties, but there is no real thing there. A quasiparticle is not a license for the underlying particles in the system to disobey the laws of physics. Rather, it is a multi-body solution/simplification based on those physics.

Kinda like a stadium of people doing the wave. The wave itself can be imagined as an actual real entity propagating around the stadium with properties that can be characterized and studied, but it doesn't exist in any physical sense. And, the individual people coordinating with each other to create the wave aren't going to suddenly start falling through the concrete floor. Nor is a beachball being pushed around the stadium on the hands of the wave going to suddenly wink out of existence.

So, when I hear that a polariton is escorting a proton into a nucleus, I just shake my head because I don't understand what the f'ck is being said. And then when surface plasmon polaritons terminology is thrown out there, I just think of coupled electron oscillations, and I don't really get beyond the fact that a proton approaching a nucleus couldn't give a flying f'ck about oscillating electrons. It only hopes it is going fast enough to fuse or that it will be lucky enough to tunnel. I fail to see how some emergent behavior of the entire system is entitling that proton to just defy the coulomb barrier.

I guess what I am getting at is that just saying a polariton is formed and then a miracle happens isn't enough for me.

Regards

I am pleased that you are showing some interest.

Even through I gave you a good chunk of theory in this Post:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3200&p=102594#p102568

You haven't read this post or if you have, you don't understand it yet(I can understand that). No matter, being of exceeding good nature, ask questions and I will answer.

Here is some material to get you started.

I consider that Nanoplasmonics is the quintessential expression for the electrochemists art, a science conceived and brought into being by progenitor and paterfamilias of LENR, Martin Fleischmann himself back in 1974.

A slide show by Stochman

http://www.phy-astr.gsu.edu/stockman/da ... 60_min.pdf

An associated document

http://mafija.fmf.uni-lj.si/seminar/fil ... cation.pdf

FYI: Surface plasmon polaritons are mentioned in chapter 5

Stockman own article from physics today

Stockman_Phys_Today_2011_Physics_behind_Applications
http://www.phy-astr.gsu.edu/stockman/da ... ations.pdf
So I've been following this with a little interest, as it stands on its own, not on how it relates to the E-Cat, and as far as I can see it, there is really only one way, as far as the math goes, that this quasiparticle behavior could somehow 'escort' a proton, as KitemanSA describes it. If the bulk behavior represented by one of these polaritons (whatever type it might be) could somehow influence Columb's constant at a local level, then this could happen. The only way they could do this would be by SOMEHOW decreasing the magnetic constant μ₀ (i.e. vacuum permeability) in the region of charge space the proton would be 'escorted' through. Doing this would increase the electric constant ε₀ (i.e. vacumm permittivity) in that region (by way of ε₀ = 1/μ₀c²), which would decrease Columb's constant (k = 1/4πε₀). Nobody has suggested this that I've seen, but if it were possible, it should be 'relatively' easy to test as it would also directly influence Ampère's force law and could be directly measured. I don't see by what mechanism it could do this, however.

KitemanSA
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by KitemanSA »

seedload wrote:
KitemanSA wrote:there are these guys saying, "I know everything there is to know about the way the world works and it doesn't permit that valuable thing to work, ... and he cheated on his taxes so that proves he is lying about this".
BS. No one is saying such things. You are totally misrepresenting what other people are saying.
Then I guess you know how I feel.

KitemanSA
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by KitemanSA »

raelik wrote:So I've been following this with a little interest, as it stands on its own, not on how it relates to the E-Cat, and as far as I can see it, there is really only one way, as far as the math goes, that this quasiparticle behavior could somehow 'escort' a proton, as KitemanSA describes it. If the bulk behavior represented by one of these polaritons (whatever type it might be) could somehow influence Columb's constant at a local level, then this could happen. The only way they could do this would be by SOMEHOW decreasing the magnetic constant μ₀ (i.e. vacuum permeability) in the region of charge space the proton would be 'escorted' through. Doing this would increase the electric constant ε₀ (i.e. vacumm permittivity) in that region (by way of ε₀ = 1/μ₀c²), which would decrease Columb's constant (k = 1/4πε₀). Nobody has suggested this that I've seen, but if it were possible, it should be 'relatively' easy to test as it would also directly influence Ampère's force law and could be directly measured. I don't see by what mechanism it could do this, however.
Interesting, but I don't see why this would be necessary. Wouldn't the simple proximity of an electron from the polariton and a proton (in a manner similar to muon catalyzed fusion) allow the pair to approach the Nickel nucleus closely enough for the strong force (or tunneling) to draw it in?

Axil
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

So I've been following this with a little interest, as it stands on its own, not on how it relates to the E-Cat, and as far as I can see it, there is really only one way, as far as the math goes, that this quasiparticle behavior could somehow 'escort' a proton, as KitemanSA describes it. If the bulk behavior represented by one of these polaritons (whatever type it might be) could somehow influence Columb's constant at a local level, then this could happen. The only way they could do this would be by SOMEHOW decreasing the magnetic constant μ₀ (i.e. vacuum permeability) in the region of charge space the proton would be 'escorted' through. Doing this would increase the electric constant ε₀ (i.e. vacumm permittivity) in that region (by way of ε₀ = 1/μ₀c²), which would decrease Columb's constant (k = 1/4πε₀). Nobody has suggested this that I've seen, but if it were possible, it should be 'relatively' easy to test as it would also directly influence Ampère's force law and could be directly measured. I don't see by what mechanism it could do this, however.
This is how the proton actually get close to the nucleus as follows:

All neutron based theories and proton/electron combo theories are incorrect.

The Shukla-Eliasson effect states that a negatively charged potential makes it possible to combine positively charged particles (ions) in atom-like structures within the plasma.

In a quantum plasmas that form at the nano-scales, where quantum-mechanical effects gain significance, the plasma density is very high and the temperature is low.

This condition exists when dipole excitation form on the surface of a metal surrounded by a dielectric material. When the conditions are right, a Nanoplasmonic structure comprised of an intense collective ball of rapidly rotating electrons and light combine(polaritons) to form as a hot spot. This electromagnetic vortex packs huge negative charge under extreme concentrations to form a nano-scale plasmoid.

Under this extreme nano-condition, then this newly discovered potential occurs, which is caused by collective interaction processes of degenerate electrons with the quantum ionic positive surface plasma of the dipole sea.

The protons of ionized hydrogen and those of nuclei of nickel grow close and form pairs.

The new negative potential of the hot spot causes an attractive force between the dipole ions, which then form tightly packed lattices. The positive ions of hydrogen and nickel are compressed and the distances between them shortened to such a degree that they touch.

Even though these ions form pairs, they do not combine until the anapole magnetic field from the hot spot disrupts the Higgs fields in these respective nuclei to effect the fusion of the two ions.

A common misconception that is rampant states that a neutron is formed when an electron grows close to its hydrogen nucleus.

In this theory, Molecular Hydrogen (H2) needs to breakup into its atomic form where H has to be “excited” to its Rydberg state. Its electron’s trajectory becomes highly elliptic to a point that the electron approaches so closely that the proton and electron combine to form a neutron through reverse beta decay.

All these type theories are incompatible with nanopasmonic theory.

Image

What really go on is that when the Hot Spot is at the proper strength level, its intense native charge draws the associated positive ions of the dipole sea close together and its anapole magnetic emanations produced by its vortex rotational motion actually combine the hydrogen and nickel nuclei together.

This is an interesting reference that describes hot spot formation:

Plasmons in nearly touching metallic nanoparticles: singular response in the limit of touching dimers

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0708/0708.0876.pdf

EMF amplification can get up over 10^^15 watts/cm2

Image

seedload
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

KitemanSA wrote: Interesting, but I don't see why this would be necessary. Wouldn't the simple proximity of an electron from the polariton and a proton (in a manner similar to muon catalyzed fusion) allow the pair to approach the Nickel nucleus closely enough for the strong force (or tunneling) to draw it in?
What polariton/proton pair? I thought your konjecture was creating a new unquasi'd exciton-polariton by substituting a proton for a hole. Let's call this imaginary partical made real a Pinocchio. So you don't have a polariton/proton pair. You only have a Pinocchio. Now, so I can keep up with your konjecture, what is making the photon/electron/proton Pinocchio thingy get close to a nickel nucleus?
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

raelik
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by raelik »

Didn't actually intend to post that ill-thought out conjecture about polaritons somehow muddling with universal constants :P I had connectivity issues to T-P and assumed that post didn't go through, but I decided not to send it anyway. Guess it did. Anyway, after reading up on Widom-Larsen theory, I can see that it provides a much more plausible explanation for the mechanism behind these types of LENR reactions, though I think it remains to be seen if it's actually correct.

seedload
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

raelik wrote:Didn't actually intend to post that ill-thought out conjecture about polaritons somehow muddling with universal constants :P I had connectivity issues to T-P and assumed that post didn't go through, but I decided not to send it anyway. Guess it did. Anyway, after reading up on Widom-Larsen theory, I can see that it provides a much more plausible explanation for the mechanism behind these types of LENR reactions, though I think it remains to be seen if it's actually correct.
Well, for the ECAT in particular, Rossi has said many times that WL theory is NOT what is happening in the E-Cat. Nor does Kiteman's Konjecture that a proton is substituting for a hole in an exciton-polariton appear to have anything to do with WL theory.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

raelik
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:10 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by raelik »

seedload wrote:
raelik wrote:Didn't actually intend to post that ill-thought out conjecture about polaritons somehow muddling with universal constants :P I had connectivity issues to T-P and assumed that post didn't go through, but I decided not to send it anyway. Guess it did. Anyway, after reading up on Widom-Larsen theory, I can see that it provides a much more plausible explanation for the mechanism behind these types of LENR reactions, though I think it remains to be seen if it's actually correct.
Well, for the ECAT in particular, Rossi has said many times that WL theory is NOT what is happening in the E-Cat. Nor does Kiteman's Konjecture that a proton is substituting for a hole in an exciton-polariton appear to have anything to do with WL theory.
Right, though to be honest, I don't think Rossi knows what's happening in the E-Cat, WL theory or not. I've yet to see conclusive evidence that any of his devices are actually producing heat beyond what's being driven in through inductive heating. Every single "test" so far has left so many variables in doubt that they are completely useless as any kind of proof of operation.

Betruger
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Betruger »

"2 years"
You can do anything you want with laws except make Americans obey them. | What I want to do is to look up S. . . . I call him the Schadenfreudean Man.

TallDave
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by TallDave »

Will anyone be in Austin, TX in early August?

http://www.ni.com/niweek/

This is where Defkalion has reportedly been telling everyone they will do a public demo.

They're also giving a paper at this, apparently: http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/
n*kBolt*Te = B**2/(2*mu0) and B^.25 loss scaling? Or not so much? Hopefully we'll know soon...

Joseph Chikva
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Joseph Chikva »

TallDave wrote:Will anyone be in Austin, TX in early August?

http://www.ni.com/niweek/

This is where Defkalion has reportedly been telling everyone they will do a public demo.

They're also giving a paper at this, apparently: http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/
Will anyone be in Hollywood?
This is where David Copperfield gives his show twice or three times a day.
https://reservations.mgmmirage.com/book ... e=HTDC2013
Venue: Hollywood Theatre
David Copperfield has been hailed by audiences and critics alike as the greatest illusionist of our time. In addition to decades of network television events, worldwide tours, and "Dreams and Nightmares,"
Tickets starting at $69.00

Kahuna
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Kahuna »

Oh you are just so cleaver Joe, what would we ever do without your wit and wisdom around here.
Joseph Chikva wrote:
TallDave wrote:Will anyone be in Austin, TX in early August?

http://www.ni.com/niweek/

This is where Defkalion has reportedly been telling everyone they will do a public demo.

They're also giving a paper at this, apparently: http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/
Will anyone be in Hollywood?
This is where David Copperfield gives his show twice or three times a day.
https://reservations.mgmmirage.com/book ... e=HTDC2013
Venue: Hollywood Theatre
David Copperfield has been hailed by audiences and critics alike as the greatest illusionist of our time. In addition to decades of network television events, worldwide tours, and "Dreams and Nightmares,"
Tickets starting at $69.00

Joseph Chikva
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:30 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Joseph Chikva »

Kahuna wrote:what would we ever do without your wit and wisdom around here.
It is too far from wisdom but attempt to relieve you and your adherents of false and therefore non-productive expectations. As I expect that people who made already several less informative demos will go on to make scam.

Axil
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1306/1306.0830.pdf


Laser-induced synthesis and decay of Tritium under exposure of solid targets in heavy water

There is an area a science where orthodox science gradually descends into pseudoscience as the power that activates the induced nuclear reaction decreases.

Recent theoretical work shows the capability of laser radiation to directly excite nuclear levels of energy. However, exciting a nuclear transition would require an X-ray or gamma-ray lasers with an intensity greater than 10^^20 Watts/cm2.

When asked, most scientists would consider this type of laser experiment to be included in the realm of authentic science. This type of experiment is reproducible, easy to analyze, and dependable.

However, when laser irradiation is combined with nanoparticles suspended in a liquid (colloidal solution) the activation level of the nuclear reaction drops to a peak laser intensity levels ranging between 10^^10 W/cm2 to 10^^13 W/cm2. This low level of reaction stimulation is orders of magnitude below the level that is going on in a Ni/H reactor which is at least 10^^15 W/cm2 between nanoparticles.

So pseudoscience is determined by the EMF power level of the activation of the nuclear reaction. If logic is used in scientific thinking, the definition of valid science can be precisely quantified by the power level of the activation of the nuclear reaction.


Science has a strange way of thinking. (bait for the usual brainless comeback)

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