10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Axil
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby Axil » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:12 pm

MSimon wrote:I look forward to the discovery of the anapole dancers.


The science of nanoplasmonics was founded by Martin Fleischmann in 1974. Through this innovative science you can understand how polaritons can form "hot spots" that set the stage for these dancers.

Joseph Chikva
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby Joseph Chikva » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:19 pm

ladajo wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote:It also gives you a tendancy to speak strongly on things you know not. I think you know some stuff Joe, and I also think you don't know some stuff.
Nobody knows everything ecept may be the God. (c)
But I speak with confidence only that I know well.
Many Soviet staff became outdated today, but the Soviet theoretical school of physics has very strong roots. And e.g. Soviet plasma physicists of my generation are still competitive in USA job market. Though the most of them are Jews and not Russians if that matters.
And how I hate that the part of which I am? Do I hate today someone? No. You are wrong.
But why you say that someone is higher than me? In physics?
Has that person got academic education in physics? Or your acidity causes with my dethronement of Polywell.
Yes, I am still stating that Polywell especially at high densities (here people talk about 10^22) never will work as predicted – never ions will oscillate harmonically around the center. Because of low (fractions of mm order) Debye length of dense plasma and impossibility to separate charges in distances on orders exceeding Debye length.
Please, answer on this point without personification who is higher and who lower.

KitemanSA
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby KitemanSA » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:26 pm

chrismb wrote:
MSimon wrote:
Rossi is not a scientist and applying scientific criteria to him is... well, dumb.


Really? So evidence no longer counts? Marvelous.

This is what chrismb used to refer to as 'post-modern science'.

It is a democratisation of science.

One does not need to be 'a scientist' to 'do science', and then that person cannot be criticised for not following the scientific method. Brilliant!

The 'doing of science' no longer needs to be 'scientific'.

This forum is repleat with this stuff. Science is about either making predictions based on agreed known stuff, or trying to deduce knowledge from observing things that are agreed to behave in a particular way.

'Post-modern science' involves imagining a possible/questionable/dubious outcome or observation, then imagining how it could be explained. (This is 'science fiction', not 'science'.)

(As opposed to 'religion', where an explanation is imagined for something that no-one even attempts to claim is provable.)

The laws of physics are now subject to democratic values. Laws of thermodynamics are anti-capitalist, so should be banned. Coulomb repulsion is anti-democratic and homophobic. Chromatography discriminates because of colour, and moves are now being made to outlaw discriminatory diffusion in several countries. 'Brown'ian motion - gee! Ohm's law was even subject to a motion in Parliament to have it repealed, but fortunately there was too much resistance.
My argument is that what Rossi has been doing is NOT science and chrismb goes off on this big long rampage about the "democratization" of SCIENCE. Still trying to force me to jump with him, but now using ridicule to accomplish his feat. Irrelevant ridicule at that. Went from POOR evidence to NO evidence is one day. That must be something of a record. Too bad. Sigh.

MSimon
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby MSimon » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:38 pm

Kite,

And his business plan is to make numerous contradictory statements that are mutually exclusive. -

No radiation. Shielding.

Plants are being manufactured. It is up to the USA company whether or not to manufacture (I may have that garbled some.).

etc.

For years. And yet you still think there is something there.

And LENR. The cells get conditioned for long periods of time. And then only the energy producing part of the run is counted.

There may be something there. I may be completely mistaken. But at this point I don't see anything that is worth all the excitement.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby MSimon » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:40 pm

I agree Rossi is not doing science. But it is worse. I don't think he is even doing engineering.

Where are the power plants? Ah. Soon to be announced. Very soon.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

ladajo
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby ladajo » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:49 pm

Joseph Chikva wrote:
ladajo wrote:
Joseph Chikva wrote:It also gives you a tendancy to speak strongly on things you know not. I think you know some stuff Joe, and I also think you don't know some stuff.
Nobody knows everything ecept may be the God. (c)
But I speak with confidence only that I know well.


How well do you know what is really going on with Polywell Joe?

Many Soviet staff became outdated today, but the Soviet theoretical school of physics has very strong roots. And e.g. Soviet plasma physicists of my generation are still competitive in USA job market. Though the most of them are Jews and not Russians if that matters.
And how I hate that the part of which I am? Do I hate today someone? No. You are wrong.


For me it matters not who someone is based on heritage. It matters more for more who they are today. As for your hate, maybe that was too strong a word, but I am basing your lack of love for Russian and Russian Soviets based in your earlier comments regarding what they did to Georgians, both before and after the Soviet collapse.

But why you say that someone is higher than me? In physics?
Has that person got academic education in physics? Or your acidity causes with my dethronement of Polywell.


Well Joeseph, I did not say whether or not you are higher or lower. I said that you think people don't take you seriously. This quote above lends more evidence to that. And yes, surely you are not the best in physics. And that has nothing to do with a topic you do not actually know things about (Polywell).

Yes, I am still stating that Polywell especially at high densities (here people talk about 10^22) never will work as predicted – never ions will oscillate harmonically around the center. Because of low (fractions of mm order) Debye length of dense plasma and impossibility to separate charges in distances on orders exceeding Debye length.
Please, answer on this point without personification who is higher and who lower.


My point is that you can have your opinion. It is fine with me. But I would offer that you actually don't know what is going on with Polywell. You do not know densities, or anything. You only talk on supposition. You may be right, you may be wrong. But it just may be a lunatic you are looking for. <grin>.

You have never read a real report on Polywell work, nor have you seen anything with actual details from the last years of work. Do you really know what EMC2 have been and are doing? You have no idea Joe. At least with Rossi, he has this incessant need to keep broadcasting what he is doing. Even if it is a load of crap. Personally, I think EMC2 is working hard on real issues. I also think that they are making some sort of reall progress, as the funding has not been pulled (which is a real statement these days as funding bubbles are being popped left and right on government and military projects). I also think you have no idea what those issues are, nor whether they can be solved. These are real scientists doing real work. As with real science, one is never certain of the outcome. Pick from one of two approached, inductive or deductive. The fact remains, you will not know until you do the work and analyze it. And even then in real science, you may not know. You may well find a new question to answer.

Are you right about debeye length in high density polywell plasma. Who knows Joe. We shall see. But at a minimum Joe, the Polywell configuration does make neutrons from fusion. Will it make enough at full scale? Well that is what they are researching now, isn't it? So stop proclaiming you know the end answer when you don't. It is why folks don't want to talk to you here.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

Joseph Chikva
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby Joseph Chikva » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:09 pm

ladajo wrote:But at a minimum Joe, the Polywell configuration does make neutrons from fusion.
Like any other thermal mirror machine.
And not as predicted harmonic motions of ions.
And if so electron heating is not the best way.
First because electron (especially when that is non-relativistic) beam is more vulnerable against two-stream instability. And you spoke about unreal scaling law B^4 R^3. And "B^4" means that you mean that n (number density) is proportional to B^2. And namly this is impossible when any type of instability occurs.
The second heavier projectile better - transfers momentum more effectively.

KitemanSA
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby KitemanSA » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:27 pm

MSimon wrote:Kite,

And his business plan is to make numerous contradictory statements that are mutually exclusive. -

No radiation. Shielding.

Plants are being manufactured. It is up to the USA company whether or not to manufacture (I may have that garbled some.).

etc.

For years. And yet you still think there is something there.
This is a mischaracterization. I think most likely he is either a fraud or a delusional megalomaniac. I don't dismiss the possibility that there is something there.
And LENR. The cells get conditioned for long periods of time. And then only the energy producing part of the run is counted.

There may be something there. I may be completely mistaken. But at this point I don't see anything that is worth all the excitement.
Neither do I, which may be a big part of his plan. His plan may be to keep significant competitors out of the running by building an aura of ridicule while he otherwise quietly gets backers that he can convince with valid demonstrations. Once his organization is large enough to survive the snakes...

Then again, maybe he is a fraud or delusional. I feel no need to jump to a "conclusion" at this time.

chrismb
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby chrismb » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:52 pm

Here is Rossi's lead-shielded reactor at 860 C.

Image

A remarkable accomplishment, using a material with a melting point 500 C lower!

Enginerd
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby Enginerd » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:30 pm

chrismb wrote:Here is Rossi's lead-shielded reactor at 860 C.

My parents have four of those in their kitchen...
Image
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
--Philip K. Dick

ladajo
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby ladajo » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:05 pm

There is no shielding on these units. The test paper describes them as two types of steel and some ceramic(?). I did not bother to go look up the ceramic part. But there was no mention of lead, boron, poly, whatever.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)

What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)

KitemanSA
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby KitemanSA » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:22 pm

chrismb wrote:Here is Rossi's lead-shielded reactor at 860 C.
........
A remarkable accomplishment, using a material with a melting point 500 C lower!


Sorry, I was under the impression that the E-Cat stayed at ~ the boiling temp of water and the Hot-Cat got hot. Do you have a quote by Rossi stating how much shielding he has on the hot-cat?

chrismb
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby chrismb » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:47 pm

Found ....

http://pesn.com/2012/09/09/9602178_Ross ... azione.pdf

So, shielding=none ... unless the stainless internal cylinder is counted, all 700g of it (~5mm thickness)!!

Remember that the stated principle is by the capture of x-rays and conversion to thermal energy. No other energy capture process have ever been described. [The half-value layer for steel is ~5mm, so that should be 3kW of x-rays being emitted from this 6kW demonstrator, and yet, surprise surprise, the radiation detection gear measured no deviation over background.]

In fact, no other process is possible, because the posited p+62Ni->63Cu has no nucleon products and therefore must be EM mediated, so only hv can carry the excess energy away.

This guy is in too deep now. He's just got to keep digging deeper and deeper, until someone finally pulls him up and sends him down for fraud.

KitemanSA
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby KitemanSA » Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:40 am

chrismb wrote:Found ....

http://pesn.com/2012/09/09/9602178_Ross ... azione.pdf

So, shielding=none ... unless the stainless internal cylinder is counted, all 700g of it (~5mm thickness)!!

Remember that the stated principle is by the capture of x-rays and conversion to thermal energy. No other energy capture process have ever been described. [The half-value layer for steel is ~5mm, so that should be 3kW of x-rays being emitted from this 6kW demonstrator, and yet, surprise surprise, the radiation detection gear measured no deviation over background.]

In fact, no other process is possible, because the posited p+62Ni->63Cu has no nucleon products and therefore must be EM mediated, so only hv can carry the excess energy away.

This guy is in too deep now. He's just got to keep digging deeper and deeper, until someone finally pulls him up and sends him down for fraud.
If the proton is escorted by a polariton electron member, then there is a possibility of the electron or the entire polariton absorbing the energy without significant EM production. This would be similar to the decay mode known as internal conversion.

Axil
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Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Postby Axil » Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:13 am

KitemanSA wrote:
chrismb wrote:Found ....

http://pesn.com/2012/09/09/9602178_Ross ... azione.pdf

So, shielding=none ... unless the stainless internal cylinder is counted, all 700g of it (~5mm thickness)!!

Remember that the stated principle is by the capture of x-rays and conversion to thermal energy. No other energy capture process have ever been described. [The half-value layer for steel is ~5mm, so that should be 3kW of x-rays being emitted from this 6kW demonstrator, and yet, surprise surprise, the radiation detection gear measured no deviation over background.]

In fact, no other process is possible, because the posited p+62Ni->63Cu has no nucleon products and therefore must be EM mediated, so only hv can carry the excess energy away.

This guy is in too deep now. He's just got to keep digging deeper and deeper, until someone finally pulls him up and sends him down for fraud.
If the proton is escorted by a polariton electron member, then there is a possibility of the electron or the entire polariton absorbing the energy without significant EM production. This would be similar to the decay mode known as internal conversion.



The Shukla-Eliasson effect states that a negatively charged potential makes it possible to combine positively charged particles (ions) in atom-like structures within the plasma.

In a quantum plasmas that form at the nano-scales, where quantum-mechanical effects gain significance, the plasma density is very high and the temperature is low.

This condition exists when dipole excitation form on the surface of a metal surrounded by a dielectric material. When the conditions are right, a Nanoplasmonic structure comprised of an intense collective ball of rapidly rotating electrons and light combine to form as a hot spot. This electromagnetic vortex packs huge negative charge in extreme concentrations in a nano-scale plasmoid.

Under this extreme nano-condition, then this newly discovered potential occurs, which is caused by collective interaction processes of degenerate electrons with the quantum ionic positive surface plasma of the dipole sea.

The protons of ionized hydrogen and those of nuclei of nickel grow close and form pairs.

The new negative potential of the hot spot causes an attractive force between the dipole ions, which then form tightly packed lattices. The positive ions of hydrogen and nickel are compressed and the distances between them shortenes to such a degree that they touch.

Even though these ions form pairs, they do not combine until the anapole magnetic field from the hot spot disrupts the Higgs fields in these respective nuclei to effect the fusion of the two ions.

A common misconception that is rampant states that a neutron is formed when an electron grows close to its hydrogen nucleus.

In this theory, Molecular Hydrogen (H2) needs to “break” to its atomic form where H has to be “excited” to its Rydberg state. Its electron’s trajectory becomes highly elliptic to a point that the electron approaches so closely that the proton and electron combine to form a neutron through reverse beta decay.

This neutron based theory is incorrect.

When the Hot Spot is at the proper strength level, its intense negative charge draws the associated positive ions of the dipole sea close together and its anapole magnetic emanations produced by its vortex rotational motion actually combine the hydrogen and nickel nuclei together.
Last edited by Axil on Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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