10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

Moderators: tonybarry, MSimon

seedload
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:16 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by seedload »

Axil wrote:Any radioactive decay can be greatly accelerated using nanoplasmonics.

In this experiment, the half-life of 232U in the laser field is reduced to 5 microseconds instead of 69 years.

Accelerated alpha-decay of 232U isotope achieved by exposure of its aqueous solution with gold nanoparticles to laser radiation

A.V. Simakin, G.A. Shafeev

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.6276%E2%80%8E

Link fixed

Think about Parity non conservation (PNC) in the nucleus.
Thanks for the link. Maybe Rossi's secret catalyst is gold nanoparticles and hidden terawatt lasers.
Stick the thing in a tub of water! Sheesh!

raelik
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:10 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by raelik »

This entire thread, and the fascination with this entire 'E-Cat' phenomenon is frankly ridiculous. I'm a software engineer and a complete layman when it comes to LENR, condensed matter physics, nuclear physics, and whole slew of other things, but even I can see that this whole thing is a complete joke, if not a deliberate scam. "Where's the beef?" comes to mind on this. So far, none of these tests, 'independent' or not, have shown the one thing necessary to settle this: a working power reactor. If Rossi has really created a tabletop unit capable of outputting 10kW of thermal power, and a larger 1MW unit, none of this pussy-footing around with these small scale tests would be at all necessary, unless he's either a) being an evasive con-artist or b) has completely deluded himself by being a very, very poor scientist. His claims would be self-evident if they were true. Until someone who has bought one of these things (or Rossi himself) comes forward and show they've been running this thing at over-unity for a month to run a turbine, there's nothing to see here. It's been what, 4 years now, and so far, all I've seen is 3-card monty.

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

raelik wrote:This entire thread, and the fascination with this entire 'E-Cat' phenomenon is frankly ridiculous. I'm a software engineer and a complete layman when it comes to LENR, condensed matter physics, nuclear physics, and whole slew of other things, but even I can see that this whole thing is a complete joke, if not a deliberate scam. "Where's the beef?" comes to mind on this. So far, none of these tests, 'independent' or not, have shown the one thing necessary to settle this: a working power reactor. If Rossi has really created a tabletop unit capable of outputting 10kW of thermal power, and a larger 1MW unit, none of this pussy-footing around with these small scale tests would be at all necessary, unless he's either a) being an evasive con-artist or b) has completely deluded himself by being a very, very poor scientist. His claims would be self-evident if they were true. Until someone who has bought one of these things (or Rossi himself) comes forward and show they've been running this thing at over-unity for a month to run a turbine, there's nothing to see here. It's been what, 4 years now, and so far, all I've seen is 3-card monty.

To the best of my understanding, the next demo of the Ni/H reactor will be held in Texas at Ni week starting August 5 when DGT shows their unit in action for the first time. Stop in there if you are in Texas and give us a report. Shoot some video if you can and post it here.

raelik
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:10 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by raelik »

Axil wrote:
raelik wrote:This entire thread, and the fascination with this entire 'E-Cat' phenomenon is frankly ridiculous. I'm a software engineer and a complete layman when it comes to LENR, condensed matter physics, nuclear physics, and whole slew of other things, but even I can see that this whole thing is a complete joke, if not a deliberate scam. "Where's the beef?" comes to mind on this. So far, none of these tests, 'independent' or not, have shown the one thing necessary to settle this: a working power reactor. If Rossi has really created a tabletop unit capable of outputting 10kW of thermal power, and a larger 1MW unit, none of this pussy-footing around with these small scale tests would be at all necessary, unless he's either a) being an evasive con-artist or b) has completely deluded himself by being a very, very poor scientist. His claims would be self-evident if they were true. Until someone who has bought one of these things (or Rossi himself) comes forward and show they've been running this thing at over-unity for a month to run a turbine, there's nothing to see here. It's been what, 4 years now, and so far, all I've seen is 3-card monty.

To the best of my understanding, the next demo of the Ni/H reactor will be held in Texas at Ni week starting August 5 when DGT shows their unit in action for the first time. Stop in there if you are in Texas and give us a report. Shoot some video if you can and post it here.
Unfortunately, I don't have any plans to attend NiWeek. I live in North Texas, not the Austin area, and being one of the few electric car owners in Texas, I can't drive down there. Plus the conference fees are nowhere in my budget, and as my employer isn't in the manufacturing/engineering sector, I wouldn't be able to get them to foot the bill for that.

stefanbanev
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:12 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by stefanbanev »

raelik wrote:This entire thread, and the fascination with this entire 'E-Cat' phenomenon is frankly ridiculous. I'm a software engineer and a complete layman when it comes to LENR, condensed matter physics, nuclear physics, and whole slew of other things, but even I can see that this whole thing is a complete joke, if not a deliberate scam. "Where's the beef?" comes to mind on this. So far, none of these tests, 'independent' or not, have shown the one thing necessary to settle this: a working power reactor. If Rossi has really created a tabletop unit capable of outputting 10kW of thermal power, and a larger 1MW unit, none of this pussy-footing around with these small scale tests would be at all necessary, unless he's either a) being an evasive con-artist or b) has completely deluded himself by being a very, very poor scientist. His claims would be self-evident if they were true. Until someone who has bought one of these things (or Rossi himself) comes forward and show they've been running this thing at over-unity for a month to run a turbine, there's nothing to see here. It's been what, 4 years now, and so far, all I've seen is 3-card monty.
raelik> but even I can see ...

It is a great argument, very solid, undeniable...
Still there are plenty activity around LENR even its public exposure is getting thinner; no need to jump to conclusion; guys claim to have the tech available for testing so, anyone serious to "invest"-in may test it before investment (all story is based on the agenda - the tech available today to be tested) thus, it's pointless to worry about the deceived investors or about damage to the field since anyone who is serious may verify it. So far, only people with no access to tech debunk it; the "raelik" is a quite illustrative example...

raelik
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:10 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by raelik »

stefanbanev wrote:
raelik wrote:This entire thread, and the fascination with this entire 'E-Cat' phenomenon is frankly ridiculous. I'm a software engineer and a complete layman when it comes to LENR, condensed matter physics, nuclear physics, and whole slew of other things, but even I can see that this whole thing is a complete joke, if not a deliberate scam. "Where's the beef?" comes to mind on this. So far, none of these tests, 'independent' or not, have shown the one thing necessary to settle this: a working power reactor. If Rossi has really created a tabletop unit capable of outputting 10kW of thermal power, and a larger 1MW unit, none of this pussy-footing around with these small scale tests would be at all necessary, unless he's either a) being an evasive con-artist or b) has completely deluded himself by being a very, very poor scientist. His claims would be self-evident if they were true. Until someone who has bought one of these things (or Rossi himself) comes forward and show they've been running this thing at over-unity for a month to run a turbine, there's nothing to see here. It's been what, 4 years now, and so far, all I've seen is 3-card monty.
raelik> but even I can see ...

It is a great argument, very solid, undeniable...
Still there are plenty activity around LENR even its public exposure is getting thinner; no need to jump to conclusion; guys claim to have the tech available for testing so, anyone serious to "invest"-in may test it before investment (all story is based on the agenda - the tech available today to be tested) thus, it's pointless to worry about the deceived investors or about damage to the field since anyone who is serious may verify it. So far, only people with no access to tech debunk it; the "raelik" is a quite illustrative example...
Exactly my point, though in hindsight I don't think I made that very clear. LENR is a very real and observable phenomenon. Nothing Rossi is doing is going to affect that, beyond possibly wasting the time of people who might otherwise be doing other work in the field. It might actually be a blessing in disguise in some aspects if he does turn out to be a complete fraud, as it may serve to illustrate to the people who did waste their valuable time and money supporting him just how they were duped.

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

raelik wrote:
stefanbanev wrote:
raelik wrote:This entire thread, and the fascination with this entire 'E-Cat' phenomenon is frankly ridiculous. I'm a software engineer and a complete layman when it comes to LENR, condensed matter physics, nuclear physics, and whole slew of other things, but even I can see that this whole thing is a complete joke, if not a deliberate scam. "Where's the beef?" comes to mind on this. So far, none of these tests, 'independent' or not, have shown the one thing necessary to settle this: a working power reactor. If Rossi has really created a tabletop unit capable of outputting 10kW of thermal power, and a larger 1MW unit, none of this pussy-footing around with these small scale tests would be at all necessary, unless he's either a) being an evasive con-artist or b) has completely deluded himself by being a very, very poor scientist. His claims would be self-evident if they were true. Until someone who has bought one of these things (or Rossi himself) comes forward and show they've been running this thing at over-unity for a month to run a turbine, there's nothing to see here. It's been what, 4 years now, and so far, all I've seen is 3-card monty.
raelik> but even I can see ...

It is a great argument, very solid, undeniable...
Still there are plenty activity around LENR even its public exposure is getting thinner; no need to jump to conclusion; guys claim to have the tech available for testing so, anyone serious to "invest"-in may test it before investment (all story is based on the agenda - the tech available today to be tested) thus, it's pointless to worry about the deceived investors or about damage to the field since anyone who is serious may verify it. So far, only people with no access to tech debunk it; the "raelik" is a quite illustrative example...
Exactly my point, though in hindsight I don't think I made that very clear. LENR is a very real and observable phenomenon. Nothing Rossi is doing is going to affect that, beyond possibly wasting the time of people who might otherwise be doing other work in the field. It might actually be a blessing in disguise in some aspects if he does turn out to be a complete fraud, as it may serve to illustrate to the people who did waste their valuable time and money supporting him just how they were duped.
Re: ...It might actually be a blessing in disguise in some aspects if he does turn out to be a complete fraud...

If you had an idea that would lead to the closing of all the worlds gas stations and oil refineries, oil platforms and oil fields on the sea and on land, the closing of all the coal mines and the gas fracking wells, the closing of the nuclear plants, the electric and gas utilities and the railroads, the bankrupting of the Kock brothers and the demise of all their political ambitions and allies and operatives; the collapse of the Russian energy based economy and the push of the OPEC countries back to the stone age, the unemployment of all the windmill and solar panel builders in China, the failure of 90% of the companies throughout the world, and the collapse of the worldwide financial system, the failure of the world’s current energy investments and the stock markets worldwide; would you be careful and fearful of the what the people so affected by the threat of that product and the new energy paradigm would do to you? Would you keep your mouth shut?

Think deeply about what would happen to the world if LENR were real and to the man who controls it.

ScottL
Posts: 1122
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by ScottL »

There's a simple answer to that Axil. If you fear for your life and/or consequences of knowing, release it to the world completely. We live in the digital age where communication is near instantaneous. If you have a secret like this, you dump it to the world much the way many of these whistle blowers have over the years. You'll forever be known in history as the person who saved the world (in the long run). That's what you do, Axil. You be as honest as you can and let time sort it out.

JoeP
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by JoeP »

^^ Unless you want to make money for your hard work, risk, and get a big return on your investment.

ScottL
Posts: 1122
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by ScottL »

JoeP wrote:^^ Unless you want to make money for your hard work, risk, and get a big return on your investment.
Sorry, survival trumps greed in most cases as it is a basic instinct. If an individuals' only goal is money, then sell it the very groups (big oil) you fear and retire. You just aren't going to muscle into the energy sector without substantial financial backing and that backing will likely come from the very sector you're entering.

JoeP
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:10 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by JoeP »

There have been plenty of industries that have been turned out due to new technology being sold, perhaps first as a curiosity or expensive replacement, and then eventually crippling or even destroying the original.

Trucking over railroad.

The WWW destroying print media.

MP3s destroying the music industry.

Digital photography destroying film and chemical based photography (many billion-dollar companies, Kodak, etc).

I'll admit that the current energy industry is huge so that the magnitude here is greater. But that does not mean that they won't go down over time in much the same manner or that they will dispatch rivals via murder. This reminds me of the urban legend where some guys supposedly invent a carburetor that makes any car get 100+ miles to the gallon...only to get bought off or snuffed out of existence by "Big Oil and Big Auto." Uh huh.

On the small chance that Rossi's invention is real and he could be in danger (lol), then it probably benefits him greatly to be thought of as a fraud or fringe kind of guy...until it is too late and a market already is established. Maybe all his posturing and "snakes" talk is genius way to protect himself...hmm? :)

chrismb
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by chrismb »

Access to essentially unlimited amounts of nuclear energy already exist.

The issue is;
- it still costs money to build power stations
- fossil fuels are still more flexible
- waste products simply float away in the breeze, so why move to one where the waste materials have to be managed for a million years?
- hydrocarbon energy vectors will still be needed (e.g. transport, industrial manufacture) so burning the stuff will always continue in the energy mix.
- politics
- &c..

Trucking over railroad.
Train tickets and containerised shipments are still available, and are often chosen over road

The WWW destroying print media.
Still got books. Plenty to choose from in shops/Amazon/&c.

MP3s destroying the music industry.
There's no music industry any more?? :shock: When was that announced?

Digital photography destroying film
Wet film still has its place, but this is one example of a general decimation.

There are no fusion processes even proposed that have all the essential ingredients sufficient to push current energy streams into non-existence. If fusion ever comes, it will creep into the energy mix over a lot longer than anyone can foresee, because overcoming the hurdle of a 'pure physics' problem is only the very beginning of implementing a new energy source. Reaching technological maturity will still take at least 50 to 100 years, just as every other technology ever has - electricity, cars, computers, even mass production itself! - probably even longer with all the gotcha's (mainly; politics, material tech, and waste) that tag along with nuclear energy 'issues'.

This whole thread is a non-issue, wrt 'LENR'. It's purpose has far far less to do with Rossi than it has with exposing dullard logic espoused by Axil, KSA, &c. as a demonstration of all that is bad with 'post-modern science'.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6179
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by KitemanSA »

seedload wrote:Just to be unambiguous in the light of Kite's obfuscation, I would like to go back in time to the sequence of events that led me to believe that Rossi was full of shit.

5) Rossi, in a comment on his blog, states that only NI62 and NI64 'react' to form stable copper. Two problems. a) what happened to the claims in 1, 2, and 3 above? b) how does only 4% of naturally occuring isotopes of nickel (NI62 and NI64) transmute to more than 30% copper in the ash?

Just wanted to be clear that there is a basis for my position and conclusion and it is not 'nothing'.

Thanks
I don't recall any of the points except #5 which is one of those examples of such a monumentally DUMB question that I remembered it. The question went something like, "is it true that only Ni62 and Ni64 react to form stable copper?" And the answer was "Yes." Well DUH.. There are only two stable isotopes of copper, Cu63 and Cu65. Given the speculated Ni(p,?)X reaction, then only Ni62 will react to form stable Cu63, and only Ni64 will react to for stable Cu65. Anything else will react to form something else.

As to the other stuff, I will investigate as time permits.

KitemanSA
Posts: 6179
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by KitemanSA »

ladajo wrote:There is nothing here recently discussed that I have not discussed before Kite. To include your sudden revellation about the shielding. You have dug a hole you can not climb out of. You have refused much evidence. This is your problem, not ours. You can have your opinion. But it does not make you right.
As I have said many times, I don't know about the Ecat, but I know two things for sure; Rossi has not proven shit and Rossi is full of shit. The thing I suspect strongly, as I have stated before many times, the Ecat is most likely a fraud.
And if you stopped your statement here, I would tend to agree with you.

But...
Rossi has lied. Rossi is a liar.
then you go on with this tirade and I think maybe thou doth protest too much. You seem to be trying to convince yourself. Having doubts?

Axil
Posts: 935
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:34 am

Re: 10KW LENR demonstrator (new thread)

Post by Axil »

KitemanSA wrote:
seedload wrote:Just to be unambiguous in the light of Kite's obfuscation, I would like to go back in time to the sequence of events that led me to believe that Rossi was full of shit.

5) Rossi, in a comment on his blog, states that only NI62 and NI64 'react' to form stable copper. Two problems. a) what happened to the claims in 1, 2, and 3 above? b) how does only 4% of naturally occuring isotopes of nickel (NI62 and NI64) transmute to more than 30% copper in the ash?

Just wanted to be clear that there is a basis for my position and conclusion and it is not 'nothing'.

Thanks
I don't recall any of the points except #5 which is one of those examples of such a monumentally DUMB question that I remembered it. The question went something like, "is it true that only Ni62 and Ni64 react to form stable copper?" And the answer was "Yes." Well DUH.. There are only two stable isotopes of copper, Cu63 and Cu65. Given the speculated Ni(p,?)X reaction, then only Ni62 will react to form stable Cu63, and only Ni64 will react to for stable Cu65. Anything else will react to form something else.

As to the other stuff, I will investigate as time permits.

DGT has stated as follows:
We realized also that Ni58, Ni60, Ni62 and Ni64 stable isotopes where “willing” to participate in a LENR reaction, whilst Ni61 was not.


In general, we know that the isotopes with an odd number of nucleons do not react under LENR as well as fission; only the ones with even number of nucleons do.

This means that there is a nuclear configuration component that is important in the LENR process.

Parity non conservation (PCN) may be a determining factor in the LENR reaction involving anapole magnetic effects.

If it were simply a matter of shear EMF disruptive power, the configuration of the nucleons in the nucleus would not be important.

A strong anapole field could change the handedness of some subatomic particles resulting in an electroweak reaction.

The even nucleon number susceptibility to the LENR reaction also is marked by greatly elevated magnetic anopole levels.

Post Reply