Talk-Polywell.org

Via NBF:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/05/observ ... ffect.html
Direct link to paper:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/110 ... 4714v1.pdf

I have not read the paper yet, but if this is indeed true, then it is now possible to create photons out of virtually (no pun intended) nothing!
Well, they would be "missing" elsewhere in the universe, so the conservation of energy wont be violated. At least that is how I understand it.
Now, I know that this is probably a far stretch, but wouldnt that give the zero point energy people more credibility?

That is very exciting, although I doubt it will be anything useful beyond theory for like 100 years.

Will wait for some lab to repeat the setup before I personally get excited though.

Wouldn't the energy to elevate the photon from virtual to real status come from the energy required to move the mirror?

There's work being done on the system, more energy going in than coming out as non-virtual photons...

There's work being done on the system, more energy going in than coming out as non-virtual photons...

I am not sure, but I think that this depends on bow you look at it.

This experiment does suggest that quantum vacuum fluctuations are real. Can anyone offer an alternative explanation? What does Dr. Woodward say about this?

I'm not sure what is new here. Creating a photon may be the the key point, though I don't know how this would be different from the energy produced previously- it has to be in some form.
The Cashmere effect is well known, and I think accepted. It is essentially a zero point energy source. Due to quantum fluctuations on time scales shorter than the Plank time, particle pairs are continuously being created and annihilated. These can have different energies- wavelengths. If two plates are placed close together, the longer wavelength virtual pairs cannot fit so there is a buildup of pressure outside the two plates, that pushes them towards each other. This has a very well known corollary with ocean wave action on ships if they get too close together.

The problem is that this vacuum force differential on the inside and outside of the plates is very small. To get usable amounts of energy the plates would probably need to be in space and have surface areas in the range of millions of square miles to get enough energy to perhaps run an iTunes device.

Dan Tibbets

This guy claims that the casmir effect is, in fact, van der Waals force.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12yjbyunRdM
It's a long video but it's worth the watch.

D Tibbets wrote:The Cashmere effect is well known, and I think accepted. It is essentially a zero point energy source.

Not really. In much the same way that a magnet is not an energy source.

Cazimir is a 'force source', if you will. You'd have to overcome the force again to pull two plates apart, in the same way you'd get that extra force when you brought them together.

To get usable amounts of energy the plates would probably need to be in space and have surface areas in the range of millions of square miles to get enough energy to perhaps run an iTunes device.

And you'd only be able to use it once, because you'd have to put the energy back in to it to return it to the original system state. No net energy is created by Casimir effect.

Energy density is the debate about ZPE. QT predicts a very high energy density whereas GR and SR predict a very low energy density. The resultant value of this experiment should give some clue as to energy density.

chrismb wrote:

D Tibbets wrote:The Cashmere effect is well known, and I think accepted. It is essentially a zero point energy source.

Not really. In much the same way that a magnet is not an energy source.

Cazimir is a 'force source', if you will. You'd have to overcome the force again to pull two plates apart, in the same way you'd get that extra force when you brought them together.

To get usable amounts of energy the plates would probably need to be in space and have surface areas in the range of millions of square miles to get enough energy to perhaps run an iTunes device.

And you'd only be able to use it once, because you'd have to put the energy back in to it to return it to the original system state. No net energy is created by Casimir effect.

Not quite. Two separate plates continually pushed towards each other could be rigged to a force transducer. Something like a piezoelectric crystal. Applied force continually trying to deform the crystal could be converted to electcal current.
And using the ship in the ocean comparison. The ships will be moved. This represents energy application. Once the ships slam into each other the the process reaches a dead end , but during the transition energy is expended. . A mechanical system where the plates are arranged like venation blinds could also be used, With the blinds closed the plates are pushed together against some resistance, open the blinds and the plates return to their starting position, repeat.

A couple of quick links for Casimir effect and power generation.

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Casimir-Eff ... technology


http://vixra.org/pdf/1104.0056v1.pdf
This one seems rather optimistic, but they have a bunch of impressive looking mathematics, so it must be real

Dan Tibbets

D Tibbets wrote:Not quite. Two separate plates continually pushed towards each other could be rigged to a force transducer. Something like a piezoelectric crystal. Applied force continually trying to deform the crystal could be converted to electcal current.

No, Dan, poor thinking here.

SO why not do the same with a magnet and an iron part - just pull on a piezo transducer?

Piezo's only produce 'energy' whilst undergoing deformation, not when they are deformed.

You are confusing force with energy. To get energy from force, you need a displacement somewhere. (W=df/dx)

Actually browse through the two links, it is their contentions that are relevant.

Dan Tibbets

I was but two lines into the vixra.org link when I found this...
"modulated in opposition to piezo-crystal elasticity"

That means it is not a static system.

Then it mentions tuning and de-tuning layers. As I understand it, a resonant system contains energy. This means that, to push it in and out of resonance, you must supply and remove that energy, expending power through whatever lossy components in the system...

I don't see how you could break even on that, never mind extract real power...

It's the usual story: There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Nik wrote: I don't see how you could break even on that, never mind extract real power...

It's the usual story: There's no such thing as a free lunch.

As far as I can tell, no one except some who totally mis-understand the whole idea think there is anything here related to getting a free lunch.

There is no more of a "free lunch" here than a car has a free lunch by using "the whole Earth" as a reaction mass.

"The whole Earth"; "the whole universe". Different in scale but not in concept!