Talk-Polywell.org

It could be noted that Tajmar has been on the "oh those darn artifacts fooled me again" end of the stick several times. I'll give him credit that he eventually does admit if/when he's wrong, but he's had a few gotcha moments. That being said, since Shawyer wants to remain secretive and I don't expect any DIYer to compete at a research lab level, I'll wait and see what comes of EagleWorks. I would think if we haven't seen a peer-reviewed journal entry by the end of the year, then we probably have our answer.

ScottL wrote:It could be noted that Tajmar has been on the "oh those darn artifacts fooled me again" end of the stick several times. I'll give him credit that he eventually does admit if/when he's wrong, but he's had a few gotcha moments. That being said, since Shawyer wants to remain secretive and I don't expect any DIYer to compete at a research lab level, I'll wait and see what comes of EagleWorks. I would think if we haven't seen a peer-reviewed journal entry by the end of the year, then we probably have our answer.

I severly doubt that EW would let it just die without a word on whether or not things went well or not. Particularly since Paul has made public statements in the NSF forum about recent measurements.

birchoff wrote:

ScottL wrote:It could be noted that Tajmar has been on the "oh those darn artifacts fooled me again" end of the stick several times. I'll give him credit that he eventually does admit if/when he's wrong, but he's had a few gotcha moments. That being said, since Shawyer wants to remain secretive and I don't expect any DIYer to compete at a research lab level, I'll wait and see what comes of EagleWorks. I would think if we haven't seen a peer-reviewed journal entry by the end of the year, then we probably have our answer.

I severly doubt that EW would let it just die without a word on whether or not things went well or not. Particularly since Paul has made public statements in the NSF forum about recent measurements.

That's possible, I just don't remember Paul wrapping up the work on the mlt thruster.

Poster DaChuna on NSF recently discussed being offered a PhD studentship to work with Tajmar on "optimising em drive resonances" IIRC.

Tajmar seems to be in enough doubt to carry on working.

R.

http://cannae.com/cannaes-new-torsion-pendulum/

Shiney

You can't say that they are not serious. Love to know what is up with Eagle Works. Maybe I will email Paul.

birchoff wrote:

ScottL wrote: My comments aren't related to the experiments. Let them experiment all they want. My comments are that anyone who critiques, in a civil manner, has their post removed (You noted Rodal has had his removed) or that their posts are drowned out. If a valid critique is not addressed or ignored, that poster leaves and then yes, it is a circle jerk.

I didnt say that and that has not been my experience. Though I guess this really comes down to how one defines "critiquing in a civil manner". From my perspective if you exclude the stuff that lead to thread 1&2 being locked and pruned. I have not observed anything like you have described. Maybe I just missed it. but compared to other emdrive forums. I would argue that NSF is the best place to participate in the public discussion.

Yup.

Rodal wrote:I wonder whether Emidio Laureti could post here instead, where he may be met with strong objective criticism, but it would be moderated so that the criticism is scientific, focusing on experiments and calculations, instead of vituperations and name calling. It is encouraging that Emidio's reaction to vituperation has been to use a gentle sense of humor and he has not been defensive at all, so it may be worthwhile to have a discussion with him that is free of invectives, and concentrates instead on his PNN experiments from a scientific viewpoint instead.

I would love to see a well done experiment with proper data sets, error bars, just a full characterization. People keep trying to throw theories at a yet to be observed thrust. I say yet to be observed because nobody has spent the time to characterize their random and systematic errors or even provide a measurement with a +/- error that is bigger than the error itself. The closest we got was Yang's attempt, but she made up her own error measurement system which appears to have been reviewed and rejected by her peers at her university. I do like all the shiny though. If it doesn't work out, Cannae could definitely sell all that as props for a scifi show.

I like the cubesat idea. Maybe some people at SpaceX could be convinced to haul a little one up to the ISS with payment as the rights to the IP on the off chance that it works. And NASA designs and pays for and builds the test cubesat.

Carl White wrote:

http://cannae.com/cannaes-new-torsion-pendulum/

I can't tell from the picture what is or is not on the force balance. Specifically, is the RF generator on the balance with the resonator, or do we need to consider forces transmitted through the waveguide?

As I understand it is a left/right spin, thus all of it is on the balance. The pivot point is the lower round vice like mounting in the center. The instrument is the black sensor underneath the resonant cavity on the left. It does not look like they are using liquid contacts for connections, which is curious to me. Although, there may be some hidden isolation details in the RF drive unit on the right.

If I were designing a torsion balance for such an experiment, I'm tempted to feed power as DC along the suspension wire. Signal for control and measurement of the apparatus is minuscule current by comparison, and the biggest concern I have for those is mechanical interference on wires. a broadband signal along the same cable suspending the balance and feeding DC is a tempting option here.

ladajo wrote: It does not look like they are using liquid contacts for connections, which is curious to me. Although, there may be some hidden isolation details in the RF drive unit on the right.

According the linked website they are using liquid contacts too.

cannae wrote:We have some unique features built into our equipment including liquid metal contacts which can be disengaged during test runs

Too bad they didn't post also a detailed schematic of their set up....

Good, thanks for catching that. That will help.
I still have some concerns about the instrumentation connects and heating/cooling effects on those. Ambient and RF leakage can produce some interesting effects.

Either way, as I said above, they certainly look serious.