NBF: Supercritical Carbon Dioxide Brayton-Cycle Turbines

[Skipjack]

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/superc ... ayton.html

Thermal to electric conversion efficiency increased by 50% over steam cycle. That is quite an improvement! It seems to be more compact and less service intensive too!

[kcdodd]

Wow, and the reduction in size is just staggering.

[kurt9]

This will help for conventional (fission) nuclear power as well as coal and natural gas. Consider it a 50% increase in the production of electricity with current resource consumption.

The CO2 version seems to be better than the Helium one, which is just as well as Helium seems to have supply constraints. CO2 is that nasty and evil gas that we're supposed to make less of anyways. It makes sense to find another industrial use for it.

[TallDave]

That could be some hella nice IP if it works economically.

Haven't they been trying to do this for awhile?

http://www.inl.gov/technicalpublication ... 906955.pdf

I wonder what's changed. I'll have to look closer.

Also a somewhat interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercriti ... on_dioxide

[Giorgio]

I have been following its development since several years, is nice to see that they are making finally some noteworthy progress in implementing it.
The size and cost reduction could be the biggest improvement to power generation that we had since the combined cycle design.

[Giorgio]

I wonder what's changed. I'll have to look closer.

Most of the issues they was facing was in the turbine. Design, material, gaskets, bearings.
I guess that they have been able to solve most (if not all) of the issues.

[crj11]

http://prod.sandia.gov/techlib/access-c ... 100171.pdf

The paper is from August 2010. It looks like they have done a huge amount of work on this and it is nearing the point of commercial viability.

[ladajo]

This is going to be a big change. It can be used with ANY viable heat source. Imagination is the limit.

[Skipjack]

Yeah, sure does look like a huge improvement to me. A 50% improvement is HUGE.

[Giorgio]

The conversion improvement is a huge leap, but what I think will really make the difference is in the size reduction of the conversion turbine system.

Community power generation from scrap and biomasses burning could start to make a LOT of sense now.

[Skipjack]

Giorgio, I fully agree! I know of a few small communities here that have small plants for producing hot water for heating, but they dont produce power. This could change that. Since it is not only cheaper to maintain, but also more efficient, it could really make very small power plants economical. I really hope that this is ready for the market.
I am also wondering what this could mean for some fusion and some fission reactor concepts that are just barely breaking even. They might all of a sudden become feasible again.
Heck, you could probably use waste heat from some factories to economically get back some of the energy that was used there.
Really sounds almost to good to be true....

[ladajo]

I was thinking waste heat application as well. That alone is an ENORMOUS market.

The size factor also plays big. Imagine weight savings in an all electric ship...The current method is with LM-2500's and support equipment. These units look like they would take up significantly less real-estate and weight for equivalent power generation.

My little imaginary hands are rubbing excitedly. Now if I start getting the mental Muh-ha-ha's, I guess I should worry.

[Skipjack]

They are small enough to be transported as whole unity over land on an oversized flatbed.

I also think that this could be awesome for nuclear submarines and nuclear aircraft carriers. Especially on submarines, space is always and issue and the steam turbines are loud.

[ladajo]

And inefficient.

The steam plant also takes up a huge amount of space. The condensors and associated hotwells alone are massive.

[Nik]

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-sup ... bines.html

The density of energy extraction would lend itself to cooling polywells...

Uh, anyone know how insulating supercritical CO2 is at these conditions ??