10KW LENR Demonstrator?

Point out news stories, on the net or in mainstream media, related to polywell fusion.

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Giorgio
Posts: 2731
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Post by Giorgio »

kunkmiester wrote:
Here we have 15 amp main breaker (at 220Volt net). That's a whopping 3KW of available power.
That sounds like a cabin in the woods. Our house has doubled 60s for the house, with separate ones for the dryer and AC. That 120 amp circuit is further subdivided for the various lines running around the house. Most of those are 15-20 amps, possibly the breaker you were looking at.
Actually, no that's the main.
Standard power contract here (90% of homes) is 3 KW.
You are supposed to run everything out of it.

If you have AC you can have a separate power contract dedicated to it. Still 3Kw thought.

Any additional extra power will drain your pocket fasted than the way liquid nitrogen drains heath out of a copper wire.

We have no nuclear power here.

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

When we lived in Italy, we had a 100 amp service. The pain was our house had way more stuff than it could handle. Between the pool pump, the tennis court arc lights, the inground outside accent lights, and god forbid the AC or the washer/dryer, it was always a game to remember what to turn off so you could turn something on.
All that said, I do miss that house, it was nice.

Vicino a Martina Franca, nella campagna fra 5 km dal centro storico.

Betruger
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 11:54 am

Post by Betruger »

Enginerd wrote:If this thing is really generating 10 kW in a smallish looking room, why are they wearing heavy winter coats?
I'm no physicist and Google translation's garbled the transcript. I don't know Italian well enough to make sense of it. Maybe Giorgio can find some useful clues in it. I see mentions of gamma radiation spurts, ~100° C water maintained by device's output, and that output was 10-12kW for 5-6 hundred watts input.... and also what looks like mention of a nickel sample that was used for 6 months in the device and that the device outputs kilowatts for picograms of Ni and H.
17.00 - The experimental setting is basically what I am going to describe here. A pump passes the water in the reactor where it is warmed by heat generated by the reaction of cold fusion Ni-H. It is measured the temperature of the incoming and outgoing (now as I said is stable over 101 ° C). The trigger is made by heating the reactor, the absorption apparatus 1269W at the moment is not yet provided us with the data of power output. Rossi explained that the equipment can produce depending on 6 or 7KW or otherwise - he added - up to 10KW. Not to mention of course, but thermal electric power.
I don't get this piece. Is 1269W a Watt value or some equipment model number? Also kind of sounds like this specific device puts out 6-7 kW, and maybe another device or another configuration of this device is what puts out 10-12 kW.

Giorgio
Posts: 2731
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Re: Thanks for this

Post by Giorgio »

bcglorf wrote:Well, that makes it nice and clear that this most certainly is NOT a public demonstration. I look forward to further disappointment on this shortly, though I'd love nothing more than to be wrong.
I'll love to be wrong too.

Anyhow, a quick look into their paper at page 4 gives us a rough idea of what type of power we are supposed to look forward tomorrow:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.c ... _paper.pdf

Even if the machine is the smallest one, giving 3,23 KWh of output energy, we should see around half liter of boiling water come out of this machine every minute.

If the machine is the one we are seeing in that picture and that amount of boiling water will come out of from the outlet pipeline I might loose a good part of my skepticism and I'll be amused..

Let's see tomorrow.

ladajo
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Wow did Google translate ever butcher that article.
My lack of exposure these days to Italian makes me forget the prime tenant, "In Italian you do not speak or write with the language, you paint with it." :D

Giorgio
Posts: 2731
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Post by Giorgio »

ladajo wrote:When we lived in Italy, we had a 100 amp service. The pain was our house had way more stuff than it could handle. Between the pool pump, the tennis court arc lights, the inground outside accent lights, and god forbid the AC or the washer/dryer, it was always a game to remember what to turn off so you could turn something on.
All that said, I do miss that house, it was nice.

Vicino a Martina Franca, nella campagna fra 5 km dal centro storico.
You had 20 KW power installed? that's completely unusual and utterly expensive for our standards. With zero power consumption it will cost you in the range of 1000 USD/year just to keep the power meter installed.

Was it a private house or a resort?

happyjack27
Posts: 1435
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Post by happyjack27 »

or alternatively something like this:

Code: Select all

d *--->---*----------->---* u
            \ W
              *
       _  /_ / \  \
       e | v|   |v | e
          \  \ /  /
              *
                \ W
u *--->-----------*--->---* d
where those are virtual particles being exchanged.

icarus
Posts: 819
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:48 am

Post by icarus »

Bottom line, no light bulbs glowing for now eh .... ?

Boiling water doesn't cut it, low grade heat is easy to generate, electricity (high grade energy) is what the market wants.

(From a quick wade through the commentary and links.)

Giorgio
Posts: 2731
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Post by Giorgio »

Betruger wrote:I'm no physicist and Google translation's garbled the transcript. I don't know Italian well enough to make sense of it. Maybe Giorgio can find some useful clues in it. I see mentions of gamma radiation spurts, ~100° C water maintained by device's output, and that output was 10-12kW for 5-6 hundred watts input.... and also what looks like mention of a nickel sample that was used for 6 months in the device and that the device outputs kilowatts for picograms of Ni and H.
Not much inside.
No mention of how much water actually passed inside the machine during the time frame.
Just a mention that the increase in energy was a factor of 15 in respect of the input.

Gamma ray measurements had a burst at turn on and turn OFF of the machine according the scientist that was measuring them. Gamma ray measured value increased of a small amount during machine operation (50%).

The machine will consume picograms of Nickel and Hydrogen to produce KW of heath.

Electronic microscope verifications showed crystalline modification of the nickel source after 6 month of use.
This lead t the hypothesis that the energy might not come from the material itself but from the potential energy of the crystal structure itself

In the reactor is inserted nickel powder, and after the use there is fused nickel granules inside (Nickel fuses at around 1500 C).


Actual cost is around 2000 Euro/KW. Only industrial applications are planned for the time being.

ladajo
Posts: 6204
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:18 pm
Location: North East Coast

Post by ladajo »

Giorgio wrote:
ladajo wrote:When we lived in Italy, we had a 100 amp service. The pain was our house had way more stuff than it could handle. Between the pool pump, the tennis court arc lights, the inground outside accent lights, and god forbid the AC or the washer/dryer, it was always a game to remember what to turn off so you could turn something on.
All that said, I do miss that house, it was nice.

Vicino a Martina Franca, nella campagna fra 5 km dal centro storico.
You had 20 KW power installed? that's completely unusual and utterly expensive for our standards. With zero power consumption it will cost you in the range of 1000 USD/year just to keep the power meter installed.

Was it a private house or a resort?
Villa propria. But pretty much our private little resort. Two kitchens, two fireplaces (one was pretty big), built in wood BBQ (.66x2M) with chimney, built in wood pizza oven, nice patios, including a covered a two tier one overlooking the pool. The thing I liked the most was the covered balcony that looked out over the pool and valley from the master suite. Like I said, miss that house.
Check it out on google maps/earth: 40.678254,17.376777
-took me a minute to find it :D

happyjack27
Posts: 1435
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Post by happyjack27 »

or perhaps even stranger:

Code: Select all

d  *--->---*----------->---* u
             \ W-
               *------->---* e-
               | v
               *-------<---* e+
             / W+
u  *--->---*----------->---* d

Code: Select all

d  *--->-----------*--->---* u
                / W+
e+ *---<-------*  
               | v
e- *--->-------*
                \ W-
u  *--->-----------*--->---* d

Giorgio
Posts: 2731
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: China, Italy

Post by Giorgio »

ladajo wrote:Villa propria. But pretty much our private little resort. Two kitchens, two fireplaces (one was pretty big), built in wood BBQ (.66x2M) with chimney, built in wood pizza oven, nice patios, including a covered a two tier one overlooking the pool. The thing I liked the most was the covered balcony that looked out over the pool and valley from the master suite. Like I said, miss that house.
Check it out on google maps/earth: 40.678254,17.376777
-took me a minute to find it :D
One day you will tell us how you ended there :D

erblo
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:08 pm
Location: Sweden

Post by erblo »

chrismb wrote:
Skipjack wrote:Yeah, but the reaction is between hydrogen and Ni62 and not Ni62 and Ni62, if that matters.
No, it doesn't matter at all. It's like trying to burn water in air. You can suggest that adding some oxygen will change the reaction, but it doesn't because water is already at the lowest energy state.

62Ni is the bottom of the nuclear heap. There is nowhere for it to go that isn't endothermic. All fusion of lighter isotopes that goes towards it is exothermic. All fission of heavier isotope, likewise.
Are you sure? It's been over two years since i took a course in nuclear physics, but I thought that one can simply look at the mass before and after the reaction: According to WolframAlpha the mass of one Ni-62 plus one H is 0.0066u (or 6.15MeV) larger than that of one Cu-63. This is only a rounding error from the 6.12MeV they claim to get out of the reaction.

KitemanSA
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Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:05 pm
Location: OlyPen WA

Post by KitemanSA »

chrismb wrote:
Skipjack wrote:Yeah, but the reaction is between hydrogen and Ni62 and not Ni62 and Ni62, if that matters.
No, it doesn't matter at all. It's like trying to burn water in air. You can suggest that adding some oxygen will change the reaction, but it doesn't because water is already at the lowest energy state.

62Ni is the bottom of the nuclear heap. There is nowhere for it to go that isn't endothermic. All fusion of lighter isotopes that goes towards it is exothermic. All fission of heavier isotope, likewise.

Code: Select all

63Cu  62.9295975
62Ni  61.9283451
      ----------
delta  1.0012524

H  1.0078250
Looks like SOME mass is lost which should mean SOME energy produced, no?

Skipjack
Posts: 6051
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Skipjack »

Boiling water doesn't cut it, low grade heat is easy to generate, electricity (high grade energy) is what the market wants.
I would not say that. In standard households a good chunk of the energy (fossile, electricity, etc) is used to heat water for heating and hot water.
Biger households spend up to a thousand euros for that a year here. So if this was cheap enough, it would sure interest a lot of people here.
I also think that for small scale electricity creation this could still be interesting provided it was cheap enough.

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